End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Well, I deeply appreciate having the same pastor for many many years...He is up in years today but was just a young person pastoring his first church when my family came to the Lord. I think I may have been in the 2nd grade but he and his wife were probably in their very early 20's...I grew up under his minstry and under the ministry of the Holmes. Both of them prayed over me as a young girl...
I got old on the mission field....lol...came in 68...a long time ago....
My Pastor has never been overbearing or demanding. He has always been a wonderful man of God. More a father like figure and his wife a true mother...So glad for people like them.
I have lived long enough to see a lot of people hurt by so called men of God that are harsh, demanding and try to lord over people wanting to know their every move...
I have been blessed...so blessed...

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

and no RJR I am not backslide....that is a problem when we try to group everyone in the same boat...while we all may not have the same veiws or opinions there are many sweet loving people here...

Don't worry, he's long gone.
He does not want to be unequally yoked.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

I am still astonished that you consider yourself a minister of the gospel and yet you have the audacity to say that a saved woman has no business having a Biblical discussion about anything with an unsaved man. How completely contrary to the Great Commission this warped concept is!

LOL - Speaking of "warped" - Who on earth can read the crystal-clear following words in the Bible & still believe in "women-preachers" (other than someone "warped" ):


11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.



Lemme' guess - another "mistranslation" eh'? Knee-slapping hilarity!



Do you actually teach the poor ladies in your church that if any man asks them about what they believe, and the conversation makes it past the "I don't believe in (list 'holiness standards' here), and the man actually asks, "How can I be saved?", that sister can't share the gospel with him? How is that soul supposed to hear the gospel?


How shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach except they be sent BY GOD (Romans 10)? Since you're just flailing away blindly in your utter rebellion to biblical headship & the order of creation & not listening to reason - here lemme' explain it again (since I've already explained this over & over on this thread ):



A saved woman has absolutely no business interacting with an unsaved sinner on a continued basis - especially when there are innumerable men in the church who can & should perform the job. This is simply decent & in order (of course, not that you understand either). Hence, your entire "point" is moot.



Besides, once again, all you're doing is offering more smoke in mirrors - & I could care less about discussing your "beliefs" - only the biblical data (which you're short on !). I repeat: I do not care to discuss your "theology" - so if you cannot come to me with the Word of God - you're wasting your time (& trust me, you'll never find "women-preachers" in the Bible).



Moving right along......




Is she is supposed to: 1) call her husband to talk to the man; 2) just tell him he needs to come to the next scheduled church service so the pastor can tell him how to be saved; 3) hand him a preprinted paper (written by a man, of course), to explain how to be saved?



Already answered this above (over & over & over in this thread actually. What on earth this has to to with the following instructions to the church - I wot not !



11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.



Explain it away all you like - It'll still be there in eternity !



If this is truly what you believe and preach regarding reaching the lost (since saved women shouldn't be having any kind of scriptural discussion with an unsaved man), then truly you are fulfilling the role of the Pharisee in the 21st century:

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. (Matthew 23:13 KJV)

LOL - First, it was the Pharisees who rejected the Word of God in favor of their own unscriptural traditions. Hmmm, kinda' like you do with the following:



New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.




In your blind venom, defiance & rebellion - unbeknownst to you - YOU are the modern-day Pharisee. Here's a verse for ya' Zadok:


New International Version
And he continued, "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

New Living Translation
Then he said, "You skillfully sidestep God's law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

English Standard Version
And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!

New American Standard Bible
He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

King James Bible
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He also said to them, "You completely invalidate God's command in order to maintain your tradition!

International Standard Version
Then he told them, "You have such a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your own tradition!

NET Bible
He also said to them, "You neatly reject the commandment of God in order to set up your tradition.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He said to them, “Well you reject the commandment of God that you may establish your traditions.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He added, "You have no trouble rejecting the commandments of God in order to keep your own traditions!

Jubilee Bible 2000
And he also said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

King James 2000 Bible
And he said unto them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.

American King James Version
And he said to them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.

American Standard Version
And he said unto them, Full well do ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.

Darby Bible Translation
And he said to them, Well do ye set aside the commandment of God, that ye may observe what is delivered by yourselves [to keep].

English Revised Version
And he said unto them, Full well do ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition.

Webster's Bible Translation
And he said to them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition,

Weymouth New Testament
"Praiseworthy indeed!" He added, "to set at nought God's Commandment in order to observe your own traditions!

World English Bible
He said to them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

Young's Literal Translation
And he said to them, 'Well do ye put away the command of God that your tradition ye may keep;



O' - Wait - Here's another one for ya' Prophetess Zadok:


New International Version
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

New Living Translation
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others."

English Standard Version
thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

New American Standard Bible
thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."





See thyself !

[Dordrecht]

I think you should change the blue to green.

More inviting that way.
Like death and taxes, there is no escaping color.

It is ubiquitous.

Yet what does it all mean?
Why are people more relaxed when reading green copy?

Currently the most popular decorating color, green symbolizes nature.
It is the easiest color on the eye and can improve vision.
It is a calming, refreshing color.

People waiting to appear on TV sit in "green rooms" to relax.
Hospitals often use green because it relaxes patients.
Brides in the Middle Ages wore green to symbolize fertility.
Dark green is masculine, conservative, and implies wealth.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

And now, back to this text:

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (Acts 2:16-18 KJV)


Here is actual Greek text, along with precise morphology: http://biblehub.com/text/acts/2-18.htm





The Greek word translated as "shall prophesy" in this passage is this:
From the Strong's Concordance:

G4395: προφητεύω (prof-ate-yoo'-o)
from 4396; to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office:--prophesy.

And 4396 says:
From the Strong's Concordance:
G4396: προφήτης (prof-ay'-tace)
from a compound of 4253 and 5346; a foreteller ("prophet"); by analogy, an inspired speaker; by extension, a poet:--prophet.


First, you should know that among Greek students there's a punch-line phrase often used to elicit laughs: "Well, Strong's says this word means..." & everyone busts out laughing! Why? Because, just as you've done above, people totally misunderstand Strong's intentions in his definitions. He is simply giving the gloss of a word & does not flesh out the specific-individual meanings.


You'll need to learn to read an analytical lexicon that interacts with a given term en-toto (i.e., overall biblical data & extra-biblical papyri from the same time-period) for precise meanings. Even then, special caution must be attended to in using sources (& I fully understand you have no earthly clue what I'm saying here).



Next, even with Strong's mere word-gloss - did ya' catch the primary definition of "prophesy"? "To foretell"! Unless I missed something, there was absolutely nothing in Strong's word-def. that states anything about "expositing from the Scriptures" (that would be "teach" - which expressly forbids women to do in the church ). Guess what? It's not there & never will be !




Y'all are merely shooting bee-bee guns in the dark !




This same word prof-ay'-tace is the word translated as "prophets" in Ephesians 4:11-12:

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (Ephesians 4:11, 12 KJV)



Pssst, guess what? It's not even the same Greek verb ! The Greek word in Ephesians 4.11 is a noun & the Greek word in Acts 2.18 is a verb! See where Strong's will land you? You gals need to just go back to the drawing board & learn how to at least read your own sources - you're looking more & more foolish each time you try - & would be howled out of a classroom in academia-proper !


The Greek verb translated "prophets" in Ephesians 4.11 (Strong's # 4396 - προφήτας) denotes an office (which is why it's a noun) - & it appears in the masculine gender (not the feminine). In fact, every-single ministerial office listed in Eph. 4.11 appears in the masculine - & not one of these nouns appear in the feminine ! Here's the actual Greek definition of the term that YOU'VE selected from Eph. 4.11: http://biblehub.com/greek/4396.htm


The Greek verb translated "prophesy" in Acts 2.18 (Strong's # 4395 - προφητεύω) denotes an activity (which is why it's verb). http://biblehub.com/greek/4395.htm



Like it or not, women DO have a place in the five fold ministry, and they were given this place at the same time as men, at the birth of the church in Acts 2. That is, unless somehow the Apostle Peter mistakenly referenced the prophecy of Joel.


Watch how easy this is: Like it or not, you have no earthly clue what you're talking about above which is the very reason you "think" women "have a place in the five-fold ministry" (apparently, for you, women can function in the "masculine" gender ).


Like it or not, the Bible militates against women "preaching-teaching" men in the NT church - & y'all's gleeful ignorance in this area is both willful & contented.



For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26-28 KJV)


Ahhh yes, here we go with ol' Gal. 3.28. Sigh - The context is simply God's deference of preference "in Christ Jesus" as evidenced by the lead & repetitious usage of the conjunction translated "for" (γὰρ) in these passages (I hope you at least understand the function of a conjunction?). This Greek conjunction is used to express cause, explanation, inference or continuation of a previous declaration: http://biblehub.com/greek/1063.htm


Now, using your logic & flawed interpretation of this passage, why even allow for men to be the head of their house - if there's absolutely neither "male or female" when it comes to the Body of Christ?? Of course, you probably don't even like that very much with all the defiance that drips off your chin .

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. (1 Corinthians 12:13, 27-31 KJV)

In these scriptures that talk about apostles and prophets and teachers, I don't read anything that differentiates these as being gender specific or gender exclusive, rather, they are written in the context of the body of Christ where gender is not a determining factor in how or where one who is baptized into the body is used in the body.



That's because you don't know what on earth you're doing with the biblical text (& one reason women should not be "teaching" men in the church)! Here, lemme' help ya' out a lil'-bit:


In your passages above, in each ministerial office listed the Greek nouns appear in the MASCULINE GENDER (did ya' catch that?) - & NEVER in the feminine gender! Though one cannot always make a definitive argument from gender alone - that same argument has been made on this thread by your camp over & over & over - & funny thing is - the same argument utterly destroys the "woman-preacher" hypothesis!



The utter-ignorance demonstrated in this thread has been an excellent example of the very reason women are not to lead men in the NT church...Good job!


So, can a Holy Ghost filled woman declare to the body what thus saith the Lord, and teach the Word of God, and be an apostle (we today would call her a missionary) who takes the gospel to a place where it has not yet been preached? Absolutely YES! And this is the role that godly Spirit filled women like Sister Alvear, Nona Freeman, Carrie Eastridge, Lucille Farmer, Ruby Klemin, Bobbye Wendell, and a host of others, fill in the kingdom of God!


Of course women should win the lost - How on earth do you think this nullifies God's instructions regarding church-order ??


It is my experience that those brethren who pull scriptures out of context from the pastoral epistles to say that women are not allowed to preach/teach the Word of God are at best misinformed,


ROTFLMHO! You just described your side of the camp to an absolute Tee - & I give you my word I'm not just being facetious either! You don't know what on earth you're doing in the biblical data & y'all are caught making totally false & bogus claims almost every time you try - then claim we're "pulling Scriptures out of their context" (pssst, guess what? Timothy was written to a preacher !)??


Behold how thick the veil of delusion!



and at worst are insecure control freaks with misogynist issues. (Yes, that was a big shotgun blast, both barrels, because just like a pesky varmint, this teaching warrants some serious firepower to deal with it).

Then you better learn how to at least load the "shotgun" - so far you've been using a water-gun!


And, after reading your misinformation (again) above - I wouldn't even trust you to load the water-gun !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I seldom even read those posts after he left a questionable impression about my character...I do read others that have posted they believe or don't believe in women in ministry but not posts from people who attack others on a personal level.
It is clear that women spoke to men and taught them in the Bible...No one here is saying at all that the husband is not the leader in the home. However no scripture teaches that women are subject to all men.
Look once again at Priscilla and Aquila, both the man and the woman were equally engaged in serving the early churches... They dedicated their lives to this task... And this was not a situation where Aquila did all the preaching and teaching, while Priscilla served them tea and biscuits!.. She was as much a teacher of the truth as was her husband!.. And, in the case of Apollos, it is expressly stated that both of them took part in expounding the Scriptures to this great man of God.

LOL - Nice try Sis. I've told you over & over it's nothing personal, that I respect your love for the lost, your sacrifices, have supported y'all with my own finances in times-past, prayed for y'all, etc. You're only attempting to cast a cloud over my character - the very thing you're accusing me of doing!


No Sis. Alvear - Prisca did not "preach sermons" to Aquila - despite how hard you try to make a "woman-preacher." You've been shown your error over & over & over regarding Aquila & her. In fact, in one place you even claimed, "Prisca's name is mentioned first every time in the Greek text" ?? Bologna! I showed you that, in fact, there names are evenly split in the Greek text regarding order - & even posted the actual Greek text that shows this to be the case!


What do you do? What you always do - plug your ears & stubbornly plod copying-pasting the same ol' misinformation. Why? Because your mind is made up - despite the clear biblical evidence to the contrary! Sad....

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Anyone who believes that a woman is forbidden by the Almighty to teach had better take the issue up with Him personally,


LOL - It's just the opposite - Anyone who believes that a woman is allowed to preach-teach had better take the issue up with Him personally - he's the One who explicitly said:


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.



Think I'll stick with what He said - & leave you to your erase-fests!




because in the case of Priscilla, she was gifted as a teacher and she actively taught as one... It is quite obvious that Paul thought highly of both her and her husband, for he says in Romans 16:“Greet Priscilla and Aquila my HELPERS in Christ Jesus: who for my life laid down THEIR OWN NECKS: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also ALL THE CHURCHES OF THE GENTILES... Likewise greet the church that is IN THEIR HOUSE” (Rom. 16:3-5)...The Greek word for helpers in verse 3 is sunergos, and it means co-laborer, companion in labor, laborer together with...

LOL - Have addressed this particular copy-paste-job error over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over - ad nauseum infinitum .



You do this every-time the issue comes up - which is merely your way of feigning validation of your false teachings in this area (& the very reason I did not want to even waste my time with you on this issue )!


So silly....

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

All I mean by covering is I had my pastor's permission

Did your pastor just-so happen to believe in "women-preachers" ?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What if a woman is very knowledgeable and a male elder calls upon her to share her studies and findings with the body? She's under male authority if she does this, is she not? To disregard her wouldn't be to challenge her authority, because she has none. She is simply serving. It would be to challenge the elder's authority, and that's REBELLION.

No, you're wrong - Timothy WAS a leader in the church - & Paul instructed that leader:


11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner....I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church."


It is the Pastor who allows a woman to expound the Scriptures (see the verb "teach" above) to men in the church that is in direct "Rebellion" to the Word of God !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by RJR

Administrators, you can delete my membership. I thought this was Apostolic Friends Forum, I did not know this was Apostate Friends Forum. I have never seen this mentality on display but among backsliders.

And you're mostly seeing the same thing again !