Should we teach others to rebel against standards?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Brother, you have the right to that opinion. Yet, when I read more negative then good, I disagree. I guess I must be from a different generation, I respect the office of the ministry. In my opinion, your on a dangerous path when you use with what your saying if you believe what your post. God can bless the church with gifts of the spirit, yet the ministry is set apart from the gifts. Your Pastor is held accountable for that assembly, he is the Angel of that city. I tread very carefully when how to deal with the man of God. Even Saul who was rejected from the Lord and David said “I will not touch the Lords anointed”, you what David did when that rejected king went after him? He ran, his heart smote him when he cut the garment. When Your Pastor is called to that local assembly he is anointed of God for that area. Try not to be critical of your Pastor, love him, pray for him, take his family out to eat, buy him something that you know he would like.

The truth is not a dangerous path. It brings more blessings to preach it with clarity.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

You should call him Pastor.

I also do.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Brother, you have the right to that opinion. Yet, when I read more negative then good, I disagree. I guess I must be from a different generation, I respect the office of the ministry. In my opinion, your on a dangerous path when you use with what your saying if you believe what your post. God can bless the church with gifts of the spirit, yet the ministry is set apart from the gifts. Your Pastor is held accountable for that assembly, he is the Angel of that city. I tread very carefully when how to deal with the man of God. Even Saul who was rejected from the Lord and David said “I will not touch the Lords anointed”, you what David did when that rejected king went after him? He ran, his heart smote him when he cut the garment. When Your Pastor is called to that local assembly he is anointed of God for that area. Try not to be critical of your Pastor, love him, pray for him, take his family out to eat, buy him something that you know he would like.

Brother I think you assume I go around telling people what “I think”. No I dont. Quite the opposite. I teach them to submit, respect, and appreciate, especially in this age where respect for authority is lost.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother I think you assume I go around telling people what “I think”. No I dont. Quite the opposite. I teach them to submit, respect, and appreciate, especially in this age where respect for authority is lost.

Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. I may of read your post wrong. In the church today there needs to be respect for the Pastor, teachers, Prophets etc. Like I’ve already said its not the man, it’s the office.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Would a ruler of the synagogue be considered a Pastor in todays realm?

A ruler of the synagogue would be one example of a ruler of the Jews. The examples of admonition of the Gentile churches do not include the part found in Hebrews 13:7 about the rulers that have spoken to you the word of God. The rulers of the Gentiles didn’t speak the word of God (OT) to the Gentiles. They were pagan, idolatrous people.

The Jews were unique in that the Romans allowed them to keep the biggest part of the theocracy intact. This included having their own government to a large extent. They had the Sanhedrin Court and Jewish rulers that this system entailed.

So the admonition of Paul to the Church of Rome looked a little different than the instructions to the Hebrews. The Gentile churches were missing the layer of leadership that the Hebrews had. Notice the similarities of Paul’s instructions to the Romans.


Rom.13

[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
[2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
[4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
[5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
[6] For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
[7] Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Notice the bold phrases. This is not referring to pastors either. But the words soul, ministers, and honor are present in this admonition to the Gentiles to treat their rulers with respect and to submit to them.

Paul is instructing the Romans in essence, to obey they that rule over you.

Another example:

Tit.3

[1] Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Obey magistrates, because? They rule over you. Be subject to the higher powers of secular government (principalities and powers).

This is another example of submitting to they that have rule over you.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

A ruler of the synagogue would be one example of a ruler of the Jews. The examples of admonition of the Gentile churches do not include the part found in Hebrews 13:7 about the rulers that have spoken to you the word of God. The rulers of the Gentiles didn’t speak the word of God (OT) to the Gentiles. They were pagan, idolatrous people.

The Jews were unique in that the Romans allowed them to keep the biggest part of the theocracy intact. This included having their own government to a large extent. They had the Sanhedrin Court and Jewish rulers that this system entailed.

So the admonition of Paul to the Church of Rome looked a little different than the instructions to the Hebrews. The Gentile churches were missing the layer of leadership that the Hebrews had. Notice the similarities of Paul’s instructions to the Romans.


Rom.13

[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
[2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
[4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
[5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
[6] For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
[7] Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Notice the bold phrases. This is not referring to pastors either. But the words soul, ministers, and honor are present in this admonition to the Gentiles to treat their rulers with respect and to submit to them.

Paul is instructing the Romans in essence, to obey they that rule over you.

Another example:

Tit.3

[1] Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Obey magistrates, because? They rule over you. Be subject to the higher powers of secular government (principalities and powers).

This is another example of submitting to they that have rule over you.

Exactly, give your Pastor honor. He watches for your soul.

What does a shepherd do with sheep?

He watches out for the sheep!
He protect them from wolves!
He leads them to better pasture!
He tends to them when there unhealthy!
He gives account for all the sheep he’s shepherding!

That sounds like a verse in Hebrews 13.....

Go tell your Pastor you love him, go take his family out to eat, pray for him, go ask him if there is anything you can do for him!

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

A ruler of the synagogue would be one example of a ruler of the Jews. The examples of admonition of the Gentile churches do not include the part found in Hebrews 13:7 about the rulers that have spoken to you the word of God. The rulers of the Gentiles didn’t speak the word of God (OT) to the Gentiles. They were pagan, idolatrous people.

The Jews were unique in that the Romans allowed them to keep the biggest part of the theocracy intact. This included having their own government to a large extent. They had the Sanhedrin Court and Jewish rulers that this system entailed.

So the admonition of Paul to the Church of Rome looked a little different than the instructions to the Hebrews. The Gentile churches were missing the layer of leadership that the Hebrews had. Notice the similarities of Paul’s instructions to the Romans.


Rom.13

[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
[2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
[4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
[5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
[6] For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
[7] Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Notice the bold phrases. This is not referring to pastors either. But the words soul, ministers, and honor are present in this admonition to the Gentiles to treat their rulers with respect and to submit to them.

Paul is instructing the Romans in essence, to obey they that rule over you.

Another example:

Tit.3

[1] Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Obey magistrates, because? They rule over you. Be subject to the higher powers of secular government (principalities and powers).

This is another example of submitting to they that have rule over you.

When you read that, please keep in mind....

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Remember Jesus didn’t set up an earthly kingdom. He set up a heavenly, spiritual kingdom. Instead of seeing through the natural eye, how about reading through a spiritual one.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

So the admonition of Paul to the Church of Rome looked a little different than the instructions to the Hebrews. The Gentile churches were missing the layer of leadership that the Hebrews had. Notice the similarities of Paul’s instructions to the Romans.

This was an answer to ruler of the synagogue being like a pastor in a Christian congregation? Gentile Churches? What on earth is a Gentile church? Did you ever read the beginning of the book of Acts? Did you happen to notice that there were visitors to Jerusalem feast of Pentecost who where mostly Diaspora Judeans who were born and raised in Gentile countries? They were ROMANS, who had Judean ancestry. Romans 11 clarifies this quite well. Church government described by Paul in Ephesians 4 was for Judean and Gentile Roman who were Apostolic Christians. "Ruler of the Synagogue" (GREEK WORD) literally means "I start conducting." Therefore the Ruler of the Synagogue got things going in the order of proceedings of the Judean religious gathering. the other elders and occupants of the synagogue would follow his instruction. He didn't teach, he didn't expound the word. He just got all the programs of the service and day in order. Like a conductor gets each section to perform as need be, the same goes for the Ruler of the Synagogue.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

When you read that, please keep in mind....

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Remember Jesus didn’t set up an earthly kingdom. He set up a heavenly, spiritual kingdom. Instead of seeing through the natural eye, how about reading through a spiritual one.

Paul taught that you had to obey the Roman government. Especially since he and other Apostles were Romans. Jesus Himself instructed that the Judeans needed to give unto Caesar his property.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Exactly, give your Pastor honor. He watches for your soul.

What does a shepherd do with sheep?

He watches out for the sheep!
He protect them from wolves!
He leads them to better pasture!
He tends to them when there unhealthy!
He gives account for all the sheep he’s shepherding!

That sounds like a verse in Hebrews 13.....

Go tell your Pastor you love him, go take his family out to eat, pray for him, go ask him if there is anything you can do for him!

While the Ruler of the Synagogue presided over everyone in the congregation. He didn't teach or preach. He directed the course of the day. But there were more than one rabbi, and group of men who taught large groups. Even in the chapter of Ephesians 4 Paul points out a five fold ministry. Jesus sends His students out in twos, not in ones. Because of the checks and balances of accountability to each other. Paul shows us this in the book of Galatians when he withstood Peter (an elder in the church longer than Paul) to his face in front of the entire congregation. Plus in front of visiting ministers sent from Jerusalem by James. Rebuke before all that all may fear isn't against young saints in a church being scolded by the pastor. It is for ministers correcting unruly rouge ministers. Yes, give honor to where honer is due, but that isn't just one man. We don't have a Roman Catholic priest system.