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  #71  
Old 03-20-2009, 08:27 AM
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ForeverBlessed ForeverBlessed is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

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Originally Posted by Nina View Post
Adoptionists taught that Jesus was tested by God and after passing this test and upon His baptism, He was granted supernatural powers by God and adopted as the Son. As a reward for His great accomplishments and perfect character Jesus was raised from the dead and adopted into the Godhead.


TBPEW , Raven and Foreverblessed,

Is this what You believe?
No
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  #72  
Old 03-20-2009, 08:47 AM
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
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  #73  
Old 03-20-2009, 10:06 AM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

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Originally Posted by tbpew View Post



Since then, I have asked folks to tell me why believing that scripture reveals that God has a begotten Son condemns me or leaves me running off the side of the road into some ditch filled with blind folks? The most often provided answer is that that I deny that the SON is God. They completely understand that I believe the scripture reveals that God abides with, indwells his Son, but (as Prax will tell you over and over and over)....that is NOT ONENESS! Oh well, I feel more comfortable choosing the scriptural witness.

Note:
I will not be online today. I will be around computer-access over the weekend.

Do You worship Jesus?

If He isn't God why does He receive worship?

Thanks,
Nina
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  #74  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:34 PM
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ForeverBlessed ForeverBlessed is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

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Originally Posted by Nina View Post
Do You worship Jesus?

If He isn't God why does He receive worship?

Thanks,
Nina
I can only answer for myself... but I worship him because he is worthy... he redeemed us back to the Father.

Think of God is the life giver... the tree of life... Christ is the first fruit of that tree... we also being fruits of that tree... we should not worship the man... but worship the actions... because in doing so, you are worshipping the one who gave him the power to overcome sin and he alone is worthy.... Rev 5 tells us only he is worthy...


Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is no other example, there is no other man who you could follow the example lived and find salvation... there is only salvation through Jesus Christ. Do as he did... that is where the power of the name comes from.

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


The Apostles understood exactly who he was...

I realize I have difficulty explaining exactly what I see in scripture.. but alive it is inside me... I have to leave work... will try to get back to this thread later.
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  #75  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:12 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

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Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
I believe this topical consideration affects how we relate to our example, our brother, our saviour; as he overcame, we can overcome.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Are You saying that we CAN'T overcome if we don't believe that Jesus was just a man?




A few other sobering considerations are found in I John.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Are You saying that we can't be SAVED if we believe that Jesus is God?
I choose life.

Thanks for opening Yourself up to these questions,
Nina
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  #76  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:24 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
The Apostolic Church I went to years ago taught that all sins were to be confessed to the Pastorto receive forgiveness and stay in right standing. It was a heavy weight to bear and before long I fell out.......was always feeling condemed.

Shawn,

This girl I'm talking with belongs to a "Jim Jones" type cult.

Arraingned marriages
Rearrainged marriages
Communal living
"Prophetic Voice" leadership

Like Jim Jones, the leader 'chastens' his followers and they seem to thrive on having sin 'coerced' out of themselves.

Instead of being condemned, the ones who stay appear to derive their very life source from the cult.

I appreciate everyone's additions to this thread.
This past week has been full of Grandsons but will be getting back with her soon with all I've gleaned from Ya'll.

You're the best. Thanks!
Nina
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  #77  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:29 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Raven, Lisa, + TBPEW,

How do Ya'll stand on 'Sinless Perfection?"


Thanks again!

Nina
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  #78  
Old 03-22-2009, 08:28 AM
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tbpew tbpew is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

v.28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
v.29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
v.30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
v.31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
[Jn 20:28-31]

Nina,
Prax (and possibly yourself) view this cite from John Chapter 20, as virtually a proof-text that the Son is God. It is important to include the witness of v. 31; the things which were written were to bring us to believing that Jesus is the CHRIST, the Son of God.

My contribution in the matter being discussed here pivots on this:
Did God indwell his tabernacle or did God BECOME his own tabernacle?

God’s WORD is, and always will be, a MANIFESTATION of God. God’s WORD is NOT God, and certainly is NOT another God.

In the presence (being part of a scene) where God is manifesting himself, what would an honest heart do? Answer; humble yourself, lower yourself, prostrate yourself ---this is WORSHIP.

Please consider these plain witnesses from scripture:
1. Moses was to put off his shoes while standing before a burning bush in the midst of the wilderness. Why? Because in the midst of a God-manifestation, the land he stood upon was HOLY.
2. A man-made box being carried into a transportable tabernacle had seven priests blowing seven trumpets before it….why, because it was where God manifested his presence among the congregation.
3. That same man-box received WORSHIP every six steps as it was being relocated; this worship was in the form of David’s dancing, shouting and the sound of trumpets. Why? Was it the box they WORSHIPED? No. it was the presence of God being manifested and returning to Israel.
…..
4. If one who does NOT believe (or is unlearned), enters into an assembly an experiences prophesy (God’s Word being manifested), he is convinced of all, he is judged of all. The scripture tells us that this one will FALL DOWN on his face and WORSHIP God, knowing that it is a TRUTH that GOD is WITH these people. [1Co 14:23-25]

Nina,
I am not advocating that scripture testifies of multiple IMAGES of God. The only begotten Son of God is the EXPRESS image of the invisible God.

You directly asked about the Son receiving WORSHIP.
My answer: when people who are seeking God, understand that they are in the presence of God (God is manifested in their immediate life experience), they will WORSHIP God.
And then, added to this:
A righteous man died as a substitute for me. His propitiation provided a means for me to escape death and receive the gift of eternal life via God’s grace providing a suitable lamb.

Worship is an expression that acknowledges position in the presence of a master. Servants subordinate themselves to their masters; servants lower themselves in the presence of their Lord. How much more should WORSHIP be given when I am in the presence of God, indwelling the person who redeemed me by his own death, suffering the death of the cross, to purchase me from death.

My Lord AND my God are experienced when I am in the presence of a manifestation of God; by making his habitation with his Son, the only begotten of the father.
……
There is one God who is a spirit.
That spirit is the anointing.
God has one anointed body.
The anointed body has one head.
The anointed body has many members fitly joined together.
The completed handiwork and plan of God; All in All.

God
Christ
Man
Woman
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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  #79  
Old 03-22-2009, 02:07 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

A lot of people don't understand "becoming". In "becoming" flesh that does not mean God was changed into an object like Darin on Bewitched being turned into a chair.

It means that God has a Divine nature. Divine nature is what Makes God "Divine". At the incarnation God obtained a human nature, that which makes you and I "Human"

If the Son is just a man that God was inside of, then that man is no different than you or I since God is in us.

That is Unitarianism, not Oneness. If being INSIDE that man some how makes that man different, then that is more like Adoptionism.

That is a two person view. One is God and the other is that mere man called the Son.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #80  
Old 03-22-2009, 05:16 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
[B][I][SIZE="3"]
My contribution in the matter being discussed here pivots on this:
Did God indwell his tabernacle or did God BECOME his own tabernacle?
I have always believed that God created a body in which His Spirit could live and die.

And that the difference between my flesh and Jesus' was that, even though His flesh was tempted, He had the fullness of the Godhead living in Him and His Spirit (which controls flesh) COULDN'T sin.

Do You teach sinless perfection?

Nina
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