Evangelist Dobson parts with Focus on the Family

[Hoovie]

Sharpton and Jackson are wacked out loons.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by notofworks

And it's "Freedom" that I believe in, particularly the freedom of those we are trying to reach. I believe unchurched people who may be very liberal in their political persuasion should be able to approach the church for spiritual enrichment without the fear of being told who to vote for.

In his book "They Like Jesus But Not The Church", Dan Kimball references the two concerns that unchurched people have about Christianity; 1) What do you think about gays, and 2) Do I have to be a republican?

When the ecumenical church takes such a harsh stand as a whole, falling on one side of the political fence, we eliminate half our audience. My question is, why should we let our political party get in the way of the cross?

And I'm not crazy about Jackson and Sharpton either, although I do understand where they're coming from.

Well there are plenty of liberal, I mean that in the political sense, churches out there as well. So I am not sure that just because some preach right leaning politics that doesn't really leave people with left leaning views no place to go.

Also don't forget that not all of those who hold a Cristian world view and are active politically are pastors, most are not.

I agree that the pulpit is not the place for politics it cheapens the Gospel, but I don't pastor so don't ask me to lay aside either my Christian world view or my conservative/Libertarian viewpoints. Dobson also does not pastor.

What I find frightening is the trend that says the government should take the place of the church in term of caring for the poor, providing education, medical care etc. I think this is just as dangerous as those who want a theocracy and rule with an iron fist.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Well there are plenty of liberal, I mean that in the political sense, churches out there as well. So I am not sure that just because some preach right leaning politics that doesn't really leave people with left leaning views no place to go.

Also don't forget that not all of those who hold a Cristian world view and are active politically are pastors, most are not.

I agree that the pulpit is not the place for politics it cheapens the Gospel, but I don't pastor so don't ask me to lay aside either my Christian world view or my conservative/Libertarian viewpoints. Dobson also does not pastor.

What I find frightening is the trend that says the government should take the place of the church in term of caring for the poor, providing education, medical care etc. I think this is just as dangerous as those who want a theocracy and rule with an iron fist.

Plenty of liberal churches? There are a few, maybe, but by and large the Christian Culture is conservative. And certainly, the view of the Christian culture is that it is very much republican. The common perception is an expectation of political compliance with the "system" of Christianity. I'm frequently asked by religious cynics, "Are you guys gonna tell me who to vote for?", or "Do you accept liberals" because clearly, there is an expectation that all need to be conservative.

One of the problems we've created within American Christianity, is a closed culture to anyone not like us. Even if a UPC church never preaches "standards", if everyone in the building has complied with the code, the underlying message is, "You need to conform." The same thing happens with conservative politics.

I wouldn't ever want you to walk away from your political opinions, just like I wouldn't want I wouldn't want a liberal to do so.

And true, Dobson is not a pastor, but that's really beside the point. He is very much an acknowledged voice of the Christian Culture and he speaks for the culture as a whole.

I, too, see frightening trends in the government but I don't think it has any effect on the church at all. In fact, historically the church has been at its best when opposed the most. The underground church in China is growing at a faster rate than anywhere in the world.

A little opposition might do us some good.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Sharpton and Jackson are wacked out loons.

I'll tell you what, Sharpton gave a GREAT speech at Michael Jackson's funeral.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Plenty of liberal churches? There are a few, maybe, but by and large the Christian Culture is conservative. And certainly, the view of the Christian culture is that it is very much republican. The common perception is an expectation of political compliance with the "system" of Christianity. I'm frequently asked by religious cynics, "Are you guys gonna tell me who to vote for?", or "Do you accept liberals" because clearly, there is an expectation that all need to be conservative.

One of the problems we've created within American Christianity, is a closed culture to anyone not like us. Even if a UPC church never preaches "standards", if everyone in the building has complied with the code, the underlying message is, "You need to conform." The same thing happens with conservative politics.

I wouldn't ever want you to walk away from your political opinions, just like I wouldn't want I wouldn't want a liberal to do so.

And true, Dobson is not a pastor, but that's really beside the point. He is very much an acknowledged voice of the Christian Culture and he speaks for the culture as a whole.

I, too, see frightening trends in the government but I don't think it has any effect on the church at all. In fact, historically the church has been at its best when opposed the most. The underground church in China is growing at a faster rate than anywhere in the world.

A little opposition might do us some good.

I can assure you that the majority of churches in DC were openly preaching "Vote Obama" from their pulpits.

I don't expect anyone to change their political views. Last week I took nearly half a day off of work and sat in the Ethiopian Embassy to get a young lady's passport and visa and overnight them to Florida. She was on part of a mission trip that was leaving the next day, and I assure you these folks are very Liberal. A friend of mine from law school called and said is there anyway you can do this for us? She is the most liberal Christian I have ever met, both politically and in terms of Christianity. After spending 2 months around her in Europe when we were studying International law she said to me, "You are the first person I have met with conservative viewpoints that isn't legalistic and judgmental."

We are still friends and christian, and still have totally different political views.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I can assure you that the majority of churches in DC were openly preaching "Vote Obama" from their pulpits.

I don't expect anyone to change their political views. Last week I took nearly half a day off of work and sat in the Ethiopian Embassy to get a young lady's passport and visa and overnight them to Florida. She was on part of a mission trip that was leaving the next day, and I assure you these folks are very Liberal. A friend of mine from law school called and said is there anyway you can do this for us? She is the most liberal Christian I have ever met, both politically and in terms of Christianity. After spending 2 months around her in Europe when we were studying International law she said to me, "You are the first person I have met with conservative viewpoints that isn't legalistic and judgmental."

We are still friends and christian, and still have totally different political views.

I understand. DC is one of the most liberal cities in America. Most churches in the town I'm sitting in right now, San Francisco, would probably encourage the same thing. But it's the exception, not the rule. The last survey I read had 78% of American senior pastors as registered republicans.

My main concern in all this is the perception of the unchurched person. I want them to be able to walk into a truly political neutral zone. The overwhelming reputation of American Christians is that we are homophobic, bigoted, exclusive, pious, self-righteous republicans.

I guess I see the mission of the church is to comfort the broken-hearted 15-year-old girl that's just had an abortion rather than protest the clinic where it happened. And I have the feeling you're on the same page with all that.

But WHEW, Baron, I thought we were gonna have to step outside there for a minute.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by notofworks

And it's "Freedom" that I believe in, particularly the freedom of those we are trying to reach. I believe unchurched people who may be very liberal in their political persuasion should be able to approach the church for spiritual enrichment without the fear of being told who to vote for.

In his book "They Like Jesus But Not The Church", Dan Kimball references the two concerns that unchurched people have about Christianity; 1) What do you think about gays, and 2) Do I have to be a republican?

When the ecumenical church takes such a harsh stand as a whole, falling on one side of the political fence, we eliminate half our audience. My question is, why should we let our political party get in the way of the cross?

And I'm not crazy about Jackson and Sharpton either, although I do understand where they're coming from.

And your point is?

Focus on the Familty isn't a church.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by coadie

And your point is?

Focus on the Familty isn't a church.

I don't even know how to respond. Wal-mart usually has great deals on reading glasses, from what I've heard. Get some and then read what I posted.

Dang.

[commonsense]

Twenty some years ago I faithfully listened to Focus on the Family. It was a great resource for raising a Christian family. He had many interesting guests.

And if you ever visit Colorado Springs it's worth a detour to see their campus/offices.

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

NOW,

I have to disagree with you on this one. Dobson did a lot of good for the Christian community bringing psychology to the mainstream. I am not sure the good of that can be overestimated.

I also hate it when people tell me where to shop or not to shop. I can make those decisions myself. You do have to realize that Dobson made it a point to separate the ministry of Focus from Dobson the man. You don't have to agree with him but he shouldn't be told to be silent on politics simply because he works in ministry. The black church was where politics in church came from in America, why do you think the leaders of the civil rights movement were men like MLK jr.? It wasn't until LBJ wanted to get back at some folks in Texas that this whole no politics in church began.

Also when Jesus said Herod was a fox he wasn't saying he looked good in a speedo that was a political comment. You have to realize that the Jews were basically a captive people at that time. Even so you see Paul use his citizenship to gain an advantage more than once in his ministry.

I am not one to think we should have a theocracy, far from it, I am mostly libertarian in my views, but that shouldn't stop me from being salt and light and doing what I believe is right to affect the society I live in.

Good analysis. I agree with you.