The Biblical response to ACTS 2:38

[Sam]

The issue of what happened in John 20 and in Acts 2 was addressed by Derek Prince, a Pentecostal teacher, on page 6 of Volume 2 of his Foundation Series books

"...the tense of the imperative form 'receive' indicated that the receiving was a single, complete experience which took place as Jesus uttered the word. It is therefore an incontestable, scriptural fact that at that moment the apostles did actually receive the Spirit.

"In this first encounter with the resurrected Christ, the apostles passed from 'Old Testament salvation' to 'New Testament salvation.' Up to that time the believers of the Old Testament had looked forward by faith, through prophecies and types and shadows, to a redemptive act which had not yet taken place. Those who enter the 'New Testament', on the other hand, look back with clear vision to a single historical event: the death and resurrection of Christ. Their salvation is complete

[Sam]

The issue of John 20 and Acts 2 is addressed in the June/July issue of a Jay Snell Evangelistic Association Publication:

"He meant for them to 'receive' the Holy Ghost then and there. How do we know this? We know it because 'receive' is in the imperative mood in the Greek text. The imperative mood in the Greek had no future. It was the mood a Greek would use to tell someone very strongly that he/she wanted them to do something now. In other words, Jesus meant for them to 'receive' the Holy Ghost then and there. He issued the directive in the form of a command to be obeyed at once. There was never a future concerning the Greek imperative. It always meant 'do it now'."

[Sam]

another quote:

"The Upper Room on the Resurrection Day was a maternity ward.
Pentecost was a baptismal service."
David J. du Plessis (1905-1987)

[Justin]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

But at that point they had only been baptized unto John's baptism. Which makes you wonder if they had yet heard of Jesus.

Because he told them this:

"4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

And then, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Again I refer to verse 2, "since ye believed"...

Why would Paul ask: "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed John the Baptist?"

The Holy Ghost had nothing to do with John the Baptist.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Justin

How does one know they have the Holy Ghost?

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

The folks believed in Jesus, but didn't have the Holy Ghost.

So to answer your question "Isn't the Holy Ghost at work in their lives at the moment of conviction, faith, and repentance?"

I would say no due to the context of Acts 19:1-6.

They had been preached "Jesus", but hadn't been baptized nor received the Holy Ghost. The people in Acts 19:1-6 had been taught the "one step salvation", since they "believed", but Paul clarified that they needed to be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost.

Let's look at Acts 19:1-6 closely...

Acts 19:1-6
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Here's what we see. Paul passed through the upper coasts and came to Ephesus. There he found "certain disciples". Paul asks them if they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed. They answer that they don't even know if there is a "Holy Ghost". Paul then asks unto what they were they baptized. They answer, "John's baptism". This means that they were distant disciples of John the Baptist. John's baptism wasn't Christian baptism. John's baptism was the "baptism of repentance", a Jewish baptism. These people were Jews who had repented as a result of John's message. Paul then tells them that John preached that they should believe on the one who came after him, that is on Christ Jesus. Obviously at this point they come to faith in Christ Jesus and are water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Immediately after their conversion from Judaism to Christianity John lays hands on them and they receive the Holy Ghost.

So as you can see...these weren't Christian disciples. In fact, Apostolic Christianity was the only form of Christianity present. The Holy Ghost featured greatly in the early church, therefore it's inconceivable that these would have been Christians who didn't believe in the Holy Ghost. These were Ephesian Jews who received John's message and Paul preached Jesus to them.

Now, we know this, IT IS WRITTEN,

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Paul tells us in I Corinthians 12:3 that NO MAN can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. You see, it is the Holy Ghost that reveals Jesus to the wayward sinner. It is the Holy Ghost that convicts them of sin. It is the Holy Ghost that leads them to repentance. It is the Holy Ghost that they are then baptized with that they might receive empowerment to be witnesses into all the world.

The problem with the three-step notion is that it disregards the Holy Ghost's work from start to finish. They see the Holy Ghost as being strictly a factor in the third step of their three step liturgy in approaching the Lord. The truth is, the Holy Ghost is present and abiding from the moment one comes to faith in Christ Jesus, else they could never believe with a faith that pleases the Lord. Christianity isn't a three step recipe...it's a journey into greater and greater Christ likeness from child like faith to empowered faithfulness and obedience.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

if you receive the spirit ,, it will lead you and guide you into all truth ,,//yes they receive it and proof is going farhter in god ...not staying trinity , or baptiseing ,in father ,son ,holy ghost.

I've known many who attend Trinity churches but received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Upon talking with them, their concept of the Trinity is more Oneness than traditional Trinitarianism. Careful not to judge a man based on the banner waving above a building.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Justin

The focus is on verse 2:

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Since they believed what? The Holy Ghost correlates with Jesus' Gospel, not John the Baptists.

It would only make since that "since ye believed" is specifically referring to the Gospel of Jesus.

Actually you're begging a question from verse 2. Paul asks them unto what then were they baptized to clarify what it was that they believed. Their answer was, "unto John's baptism" meaning they were disciples of John the Baptist who had yet to hear the gospel.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Justin

Again I refer to verse 2, "since ye believed"...

Why would Paul ask: "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed John the Baptist?"

The Holy Ghost had nothing to do with John the Baptist.

Paul was getting to know these disciples. Paul obviously assumed they were Christians. But when he asked them if they had received the Holy Ghost they didn't know what he was talking about. In fact, they obviously weren't even baptized in Jesus name yet, for he baptizes them in the name of the Lord in verse 6. They were Messianic Jewish disciples of John the Baptist. Most likely they were still awaiting the Messiah. This is why Paul's teaching them that the one John spoke of was Christ Jesus was so essential. The context IN IT'S ENTIRETY indicates that they were disciples of John the Baptist, not Christians.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Justin

Again I refer to verse 2, "since ye believed"...

Why would Paul ask: "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed John the Baptist?"

The Holy Ghost had nothing to do with John the Baptist.

I think you're ill informed... Let's look at John the Baptist's message...

Matthew 3:1-12
1In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The very message of John was that they should repent and prepare for the one who could come baptizing them with the Holy Ghost and with fire. Asking these disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed would be the perfect question to ask in order to lead them to faith in Christ Jesus. Paul was indeed following the Holy Ghost here.

Compare what Paul indeed taught them,

Acts 19:1-6
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

As you can see they didn't even know that the Holy Ghost and fire John preached about was yet given. Paul discovers that they were disciples of John the baptist and preaches to them that John's very message was to believe on the one who would come after him, that is on Christ Jesus. Here, they are hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the first time. They received Paul's words and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Paul lays hands on them and they receive the promise spoken of by John the Baptist.

I call into question your interpretation of the passage. Especially if you didn't even know that the promise of the Holy Ghost was a primary feature of John's message.

Please... be contextual.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think you're ill informed... Let's look at John the Baptist's message...

Matthew 3:1-12
1In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The very message of John was that they should repent and prepare for the one who could come baptizing them with the Holy Ghost and with fire. Asking these disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed would be the perfect question to ask in order to lead them to faith in Christ Jesus. Paul was indeed following the Holy Ghost here.

Compare what Paul indeed taught them,

Acts 19:1-6
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

As you can see they didn't even know that the Holy Ghost and fire John preached about was yet given. Paul discovers that they were disciples of John the baptist and preaches to them that John's very message was to believe on the one who would come after him, that is on Christ Jesus. Here, they are hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the first time. They received Paul's words and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Paul lays hands on them and they receive the promise spoken of by John the Baptist.

I call into question your interpretation of the passage. Especially if you didn't even know that the promise of the Holy Ghost was a primary feature of John's message.

Please... be contextual.

Interesting. One follow up question:

Luke: 7

18John's disciples told him about all these things. Calling two of them, 19he sent them to the Lord to ask, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"
20When the men came to Jesus, they said, "John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, 'Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?' "

21At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind. 22So he replied to the messengers, "Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[b] are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. 23Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me."

Shouldn't John's disciples have known about the Holy Ghost in Acts 19, seeing that Matthew 3 was the introduction of John's message as John spoke specifically of the Holy Ghost?

In other words, John's own disciples didn't really listen to or understand their masters message regarding the Holy Ghost.