For those that left the UPC...

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Thank you for this very honest post!

Your welcome.

Sometimes honesty can be quite difficult. I often find it ironic that we who claim so vociferously to have "the truth" can flinch in the face of truth when it begins to strike at the core of our traditions.

[longhairgirl]

Well, I have to say that I am 100% UPC. I just joined today, and will probably leave since I was under the impression that this was a UPC forum, and it is not (oops). I was really just looking for some fellowship like I have with my girlfriends after church, so this is not for me.

But I do feel compelled to respond to your post. From the other side. As I have said, I am 100% UPC...I was not raised in church, I've been to every church under the sun and studied everything from Buddist to Wicca. When the Lord found me, I knew this was the real thing

So, I joined the church at age 21, and got married at age 24. A year later, my husband left the church. I was devasted. I cried and cried to the Lord, I did things the "right" way...and my husband leaves the church! It was very hard on me and my child (I have 3 children now). My greatest concern was for my children...you see, I love this church, its standards, its doctrine. I want my children to love it too. Thank the Lord my husband has now been back in church for 2 years!

I say all this to say that I really admire your concern for your husband. I would hate for your objection to standards to drive a wedge into your family. It's sooooo hard for someone who tries to keep the churches standards to live with someone not in church. Keep on praying about this, and talk to your husband about his concerns. Coming from his point of view, its very scary when your other half leaves the church. I still have things in my house (TV....I can't stand it!) that haven't left from when my husband was out of church. Some things are not easily undone.

I hope I have not offended you in any way...I simply speak from the heart as one who has been on the other side. Your family will be in my prayers.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by longhairgirl

Well, I have to say that I am 100% UPC. I just joined today, and will probably leave since I was under the impression that this was a UPC forum, and it is not (oops). I was really just looking for some fellowship like I have with my girlfriends after church, so this is not for me.

But I do feel compelled to respond to your post. From the other side. As I have said, I am 100% UPC...I was not raised in church, I've been to every church under the sun and studied everything from Buddist to Wicca. When the Lord found me, I knew this was the real thing

So, I joined the church at age 21, and got married at age 24. A year later, my husband left the church. I was devasted. I cried and cried to the Lord, I did things the "right" way...and my husband leaves the church! It was very hard on me and my child (I have 3 children now). My greatest concern was for my children...you see, I love this church, its standards, its doctrine. I want my children to love it too. Thank the Lord my husband has now been back in church for 2 years!

I say all this to say that I really admire your concern for your husband. I would hate for your objection to standards to drive a wedge into your family. It's sooooo hard for someone who tries to keep the churches standards to live with someone not in church. Keep on praying about this, and talk to your husband about his concerns. Coming from his point of view, its very scary when your other half leaves the church. I still have things in my house (TV....I can't stand it!) that haven't left from when my husband was out of church. Some things are not easily undone.

I hope I have not offended you in any way...I simply speak from the heart as one who has been on the other side. Your family will be in my prayers.

You have brought an interesting point of view here. I am worried though. Your whole post mentioned how you are UPC, 100% so. It said that you love the standards and doctrine. I have an inquiry. First nothing you said was about God. Second, if your doctrine and standards weren't a part of the picture would you still love God? Is your faith and love in God held together by the putty you have made of the standards and such?

See the reason I ask these things is because I have been there and said similar things. What you felt when God "found you" was very real and still is. However the reality is Him and not the extra biblical teachings that many of us have preached for ages. It is extremely simple to pull out 1 verse and say it means "x" and some will believe that. But ultimately it is up to God to lead us into all righteousness. I appreciate your honesty and you standing by what you believe. It scares me because I know how you feel because I was there and under delision I might add. Not that you are, but I was and I sounded like you just did.

It just worries me a bit when I see someone lift up standards and doctrine and not mention much about loving the God they serve. If you came on here and was showing tons of love for God then I wouldn't have written this. Following a system doen't equal following God.

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by longhairgirl

Well, I have to say that I am 100% UPC. I just joined today, and will probably leave since I was under the impression that this was a UPC forum, and it is not (oops). I was really just looking for some fellowship like I have with my girlfriends after church, so this is not for me.

But I do feel compelled to respond to your post. From the other side. As I have said, I am 100% UPC...I was not raised in church, I've been to every church under the sun and studied everything from Buddist to Wicca. When the Lord found me, I knew this was the real thing

So, I joined the church at age 21, and got married at age 24. A year later, my husband left the church. I was devasted. I cried and cried to the Lord, I did things the "right" way...and my husband leaves the church! It was very hard on me and my child (I have 3 children now). My greatest concern was for my children...you see, I love this church, its standards, its doctrine. I want my children to love it too. Thank the Lord my husband has now been back in church for 2 years!

I say all this to say that I really admire your concern for your husband. I would hate for your objection to standards to drive a wedge into your family. It's sooooo hard for someone who tries to keep the churches standards to live with someone not in church. Keep on praying about this, and talk to your husband about his concerns. Coming from his point of view, its very scary when your other half leaves the church. I still have things in my house (TV....I can't stand it!) that haven't left from when my husband was out of church. Some things are not easily undone.

I hope I have not offended you in any way...I simply speak from the heart as one who has been on the other side. Your family will be in my prayers.

I suppose there is no sense in responding if you are leaving, but I will say this. The UPC in which I was born and raised has given me much in the way of blessing and foundational bible truth. However, we have been guilty of complicating the message beyond the original intent. We have been bewitched, as were the Galatians. It seems to me that the hoops we require our newly born babes to jump through have become deterrents to their spiritual growth. When they learn the truth of our traditions, many become disillusioned and leave, some back to the world and others to other churches.

I pray blessings upon you, and I am glad you were able to embrace the traditions of the church you are in. Many are not able to do as you have, and not because they do not love the truth, but rather because they do and cannot escape it.

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

You have brought an interesting point of view here. I am worried though. Your whole post mentioned how you are UPC, 100% so. It said that you love the standards and doctrine. I have an inquiry. First nothing you said was about God. Second, if your doctrine and standards weren't a part of the picture would you still love God? Is your faith and love in God held together by the putty you have made of the standards and such?

See the reason I ask these things is because I have been there and said similar things. What you felt when God "found you" was very real and still is. However the reality is Him and not the extra biblical teachings that many of us have preached for ages. It is extremely simple to pull out 1 verse and say it means "x" and some will believe that. But ultimately it is up to God to lead us into all righteousness. I appreciate your honesty and you standing by what you believe. It scares me because I know how you feel because I was there and under delision I might add. Not that you are, but I was and I sounded like you just did.

It just worries me a bit when I see someone lift up standards and doctrine and not mention much about loving the God they serve. If you came on here and was showing tons of love for God then I wouldn't have written this. Following a system doen't equal following God.

Very well said. Traditional church standards don't equal a relationship. But they don't negate it either.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

Your welcome.

Sometimes honesty can be quite difficult. I often find it ironic that we who claim so vociferously to have "the truth" can flinch in the face of truth when it begins to strike at the core of our traditions.

I liked reading your post as well. It's difficult when a culture changes and traditions don't. Look at the Amish.

[longhairgirl]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

You have brought an interesting point of view here. I am worried though. Your whole post mentioned how you are UPC, 100% so. It said that you love the standards and doctrine. I have an inquiry. First nothing you said was about God. Second, if your doctrine and standards weren't a part of the picture would you still love God? Is your faith and love in God held together by the putty you have made of the standards and such?

See the reason I ask these things is because I have been there and said similar things. What you felt when God "found you" was very real and still is. However the reality is Him and not the extra biblical teachings that many of us have preached for ages. It is extremely simple to pull out 1 verse and say it means "x" and some will believe that. But ultimately it is up to God to lead us into all righteousness. I appreciate your honesty and you standing by what you believe. It scares me because I know how you feel because I was there and under delision I might add. Not that you are, but I was and I sounded like you just did.

It just worries me a bit when I see someone lift up standards and doctrine and not mention much about loving the God they serve. If you came on here and was showing tons of love for God then I wouldn't have written this. Following a system doen't equal following God.

Sorry, I just kinda assumed that no one would follow standards etc if it wasn't for God. Everything I do is between me and God...personal convictions He led me to. He is the reason for my existence. Each and every standard I follow I studied out and prayed about. I think this is why maybe I feel so strongly about them, more so than some of yall. They were all personal and individual convictions (standard by standard) as I grew in my relationship with God. No pastor ever told me "don't do this" or "don't do that." They just prayed for me

Even now, in my church (which from reading some of the threads on here is probably considered super conservative, although it's the most liberal UPC I've been a member of), the pastor only talks about standards with church members...any visitors or new converts go to Bible study when the pastor does a standards refreshing...and that's about once a year...and believe me its needed at least once a year! We know that standards don't get anyone to heaven, at our church we reach out to the lost and show them God's love. We let God do the convicting

Edited to correct spelling errors

[longhairgirl]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

I suppose there is no sense in responding if you are leaving, but I will say this. The UPC in which I was born and raised has given me much in the way of blessing and foundational bible truth. However, we have been guilty of complicating the message beyond the original intent. We have been bewitched, as were the Galatians. It seems to me that the hoops we require our newly born babes to jump through have become deterrents to their spiritual growth. When they learn the truth of our traditions, many become disillusioned and leave, some back to the world and others to other churches.

I pray blessings upon you, and I am glad you were able to embrace the traditions of the church you are in. Many are not able to do as you have, and not because they do not love the truth, but rather because they do and cannot escape it.

I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences. I have never been required to jump through hoops to gain exceptance in a UPC church...I have been a member of three (only changing due to moving), and visited countless others. When I first came to God, I didn't do any standards and only felt love never condemnation.

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I liked reading your post as well. It's difficult when a culture changes and traditions don't. Look at the Amish.

True. Their stands made sense at one time. But that time is not now.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by longhairgirl

Sorry, I just kinda assumed that no one would follow standards etc if it wasn't for God. Everything I do is between me and God...personal convictions He led me to. He is the reason for my existence. Each and every standard I follow I studied out and prayed about. I think this is why maybe I feel so strongly about them, more so than some of yall. They were all personal and individual convictions (standard by standard) as I grew in my relationship with God. No pastor ever told me "don't do this" or "don't do that." They just prayed for me

Even now, in my church (which from reading some of the threads on here is probably considered super conservative, although it's the most liberal UPC I've been a member of), the pastor only talks about standards with church members...any visitors or new converts go to Bible study when the pastor does a standards refreshing...and that's about once a year...and believe me its needed at least once a year! We know that standards don't get anyone to heaven, at our church we reach out to the lost and show them God's love. We let God do the convicting

Edited to correct spelling errors

I understand that you are commited to you convictions which is awesome. All I was saying is that I used to talk like you did in that first post. I even used to say I have studied out all the standards, etc. like you just did. I don't know you so I can't and won't judge. I have seen it too often that what people think is God's leading voice is the voice of leaders and others that have taken the place of God inside ones head. Those voices can be completely misleading. I am not going to tell you nor anyone else how to live. But always remember that we are to come out from the world to be seperate unto God and not just to be set aside and look different.

Modesty is as much if not more of a inner thing that shines outwardly through body language more than clothing. It can be easy to see a women in a bathing suit and not find her appealing if her body language is not trying to entice. It is easy to find women appealing that are clothed head to toe because they are being appealing with how their body language is. Does that make sense? If it does then it is easy to understand that one can be clothed head to toe and God not find them appealing because of their spiritual body language. I am not God and not saying He doesn't find you appealing. All I am saying is that I was not appealing to God when I was talking like you because of my spiritual body language.