The bold is a blanket statement and is not true for all.
As for home missionaries having to work full time secular jobs, SO WHAT?
My pastor and pastors wife both work secular jobs. Guess what? We aren't "home missions" so theres no support at all coming from anywhere. Our church has been around for over 30 years and has been through hell and back multiple times with multiple pastor changes over the years. There has been no help during those times when attendance has been so low that the building was almost repossessed. People worked, people gave and God blessed and somehow the church has survived it all.
I suppose my pastor and his wife should get upset over those foreign missionaries that receive support and may not have to work secular jobs? I guess they should get upset that there was no plan in place to help them when they first took the church under less than perfect circumstances?
THEY WOULDN'T DREAM OF IT!
If this wasn't so sad it would be laughable...
Once the churches are built, how long does a foreign country need American missionaries? Shouldn't the saints of that country do exactly what the saints in your church did? When does foreign missions to certain countries become like the American welfare system?
BTW, if you read Charnock's post in which you responded there was nothing but facts given and not sentiments good or bad. What do you find "so sad" with his words?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Most home missionaries work jobs. Foreign missionaries are fully supported.
Not only are foreign missionaries fully supported with a great salary and benefits, they also receive a lot of funding to build facilities.
Home missionaries, on the other hand, are mostly on their own. Metro missions pays a small portion of HM pastors salaries, and there are loan programs, like church in a day, that helps with facility costs. However, these programs are tiny compared to foreign missions.
Mostly, home missionaries are on their own. They have to be full time secular workers, and full time pastors, all while trying to build a congregation and facility in an increasingly secular and anti-Christian society which doesn't trust them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
The bold is a blanket statement and is not true for all.
As for home missionaries having to work full time secular jobs, SO WHAT?
My pastor and pastors wife both work secular jobs. Guess what? We aren't "home missions" so theres no support at all coming from anywhere. Our church has been around for over 30 years and has been through hell and back multiple times with multiple pastor changes over the years. There has been no help during those times when attendance has been so low that the building was almost repossessed. People worked, people gave and God blessed and somehow the church has survived it all.
I suppose my pastor and his wife should get upset over those foreign missionaries that receive support and may not have to work secular jobs? I guess they should get upset that there was no plan in place to help them when they first took the church under less than perfect circumstances?
THEY WOULDN'T DREAM OF IT!
If this wasn't so sad it would be laughable...
Your diatribe only serves to prove ILG's point.
Now imagine if your pastor's family, and the local assembly was fully supported. I imagine that would make a difference in the health of the church.
American pastors are leaving their posts in droves, and it's not because they aren't called, are lazy, selfish and/or worldly. The simple truth is, many of them can't afford to pastor.
Consider these numbers from the UPCI:
Year 2010 Churches
2320 affiliated
1666 non-affiliated
3986 TOTAL
Year 2000 Churches
2398 affiliated
1551 non-affiliated
3949 TOTAL
The UPCI added 37 churches in the last decade. That's less than four per year. At the same time,
Year 2000 Ministers
4097 Ordained
2214 General
2237 Local
8548 TOTAL
Year 2010 Ministers
4240 Ordained
2281 General
2642 Local
9163 TOTAL
So, the UPC added 615 ministers to take care of 37 more churches? What does this tell us?
1. We are losing a lot of churches. This must be assumed when we consider the massive number of church plants each year. The idea that only 4 churches a year were added is mind-blowing.
2. We are adding a lot of ministers to do roughly the same amount of work as ten years ago.
The question is why?
a. Why are we losing so many churches?
b. Why are there so many new ministers added to existing churches?
For the past year, I have been conducting research to find out. The number one answer is burnout, which is caused by unrealistic expectations from others, lack of ministry resources, and financial strain.
Pastors are developing new ministers to help them carry a very heavy load. Yet, even with that help, they struggle.
Look, this is not about whining, It's about attrition. If the American church continues to decrease, foreign missions will suffer. It's time to renew our focus on core things, especially the health of the local church.
When the local church is healthy, the entire body grows. When it's not, sickness and death come in.
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
*sigh
I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who devotes their life to the furtherance of the gospel. I can appreciate the sacrifice of one who starts a home missions work. Like I said I have a great deal of insight and perspective from both sides of the issue.
That being said, do some of you honestly and seriously not understand the simple logistical difference between starting and running a single church and running the multitude of works in an entire nation or region?
Like I said earlier, I personally know a missionary whose circumstances are such that they do work a secular job. I said earlier that the size and scope of the work has a lot to do with it. I can assure you that operating the mission fields that I am personally familiar with is much more than a full-time job in and of itself.
...and once again, I would not wish deputation on my worst enemy...
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
*sigh
I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who devotes their life to the furtherance of the gospel. I can appreciate the sacrifice of one who starts a home missions work. Like I said I have a great deal of insight and perspective from both sides of the issue.
That being said, do some of you honestly and seriously not understand the simple logistical difference between starting and running a single church and running the multitude of works in an entire nation or region?
Like I said earlier, I personally know a missionary whose circumstances are such that they do work a secular job. I said earlier that the size and scope of the work has a lot to do with it. I can assure you that operating the mission fields that I am personally familiar with is much more than a full-time job in and of itself.
...and once again, I would not wish deputation on my worst enemy...
Amen!
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
*sigh
I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who devotes their life to the furtherance of the gospel. I can appreciate the sacrifice of one who starts a home missions work. Like I said I have a great deal of insight and perspective from both sides of the issue.
That being said, do some of you honestly and seriously not understand the simple logistical difference between starting and running a single church and running the multitude of works in an entire nation or region?
Like I said earlier, I personally know a missionary whose circumstances are such that they do work a secular job. I said earlier that the size and scope of the work has a lot to do with it. I can assure you that operating the mission fields that I am personally familiar with is much more than a full-time job in and of itself.
...and once again, I would not wish deputation on my worst enemy...
When should the work become nationalized? Do they need missionaries indefinitely?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
When should the work become nationalized? Do they need missionaries indefinitely?
I can't speak for anybody else in this regard but from what I can tell that is a growing trend and the direction many countries are heading in. Many churches are focusing on establishing "self-sufficiency programs", for example, that are intended to help subsidize the works. In some countries, self sufficiency is much more real and attainable. In others, the conditions and economies are such that the gospel could not effectively be spread without outside assistance in my honest opinion. At the end of the day, spreading the gospel is the ultimate goal and there is an eternal reward for those who make it possible here or around the world.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Don't you think the economy has something to do with all this too? People are losing their jobs, so there's less money coming into the churches.
I realize that's not the only reason, but I would think it has something to do with it too.
The stats are from 2000-2010, and the recession didn't hit until 2008. I do think Americans are hurting now. That is definitely impacting the church.
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
In spite of a so-called WPF split, and other seemingly regular departures spawned by anti-standards ministers, and the economic hit (in 08, and 09) the UPC continues to grow.
No doubt this is more groweth than many denominations have experienced in recent decades.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
In spite of a so-called WPF split, and other seemingly regular departures spawned by anti-standards ministers, and the economic hit (in 08, and 09) the UPC continues to grow.
No doubt this is more groweth than many denominations have experienced in recent decades.
Tiny growth, but growth nonetheless.
I wonder how much the population of North America grew between 2000-2010.
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
Hybrid Mode
