Book Discussion: Pagan Christianity

[Amanah]

Viola, Frank
Pagan Christianity? : exploring the roots of our church practices /Frank Viola and George Barna. Tyndale, 2002, 2008

Summary of Chapter 11

Viola says that grabbing a few people, opening your house and attempting to have a bible study with them is not really what he is proposing

"Is "organic church" a synonym for “house church”? if not, what is the distinction?
No, it is not a synonym. Some house churches are organic, while others are not. A number of present day house churches are glorified Bible studies. Many others are supper –fests . . . Some house churches are just as institutionalized as traditional churches – with a living room pulpit and chairs arranged in rows so attendees can listen to a forty five minute sermon.
Organic church life is a grassroots experience that is marked by face-to-face community, every-member functioning, open-participatory meetings, nonhierarchical leadership, and the centrality and supremacy of Jesus Christ as the functional leader and head of the group. Put another way, organic church life is the “experience” of the Body of Christ. In its purest form, it is the fellowship of . . . God brought to earth and experienced by human beings.” (Viola 240 - 241)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Viola, Frank
Pagan Christianity? : exploring the roots of our church practices /Frank Viola and George Barna. Tyndale, 2002, 2008

Summary of Chapter 11

Viola says that grabbing a few people, opening your house and attempting to have a bible study with them is not really what he is proposing

"Is "organic church" a synonym for “house church�? if not, what is the distinction?
No, it is not a synonym. Some house churches are organic, while others are not. A number of present day house churches are glorified Bible studies. Many others are supper –fests . . . Some house churches are just as institutionalized as traditional churches – with a living room pulpit and chairs arranged in rows so attendees can listen to a forty five minute sermon.
Organic church life is a grassroots experience that is marked by face-to-face community, every-member functioning, open-participatory meetings, nonhierarchical leadership, and the centrality and supremacy of Jesus Christ as the functional leader and head of the group. Put another way, organic church life is the “experience� of the Body of Christ. In its purest form, it is the fellowship of . . . God brought to earth and experienced by human beings.� (Viola 240 - 241)

Amen. Having experienced this for a year or so, I can say that there is nothing like it. While I love larger gatherings, organic house church is where I'm spiritually nourished and edified the most. I can't imagine the Christian life without it.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen. Having experienced this for a year or so, I can say that there is nothing like it. While I love larger gatherings, organic house church is where I'm spiritually nourished and edified the most. I can't imagine the Christian life without it.

I'd be up for exploring it, my Sister doesn't want to though and whatever we do, we are going to do together. She thinks it sounds like too much work and commitment. She envisions taking turns having the meeting in each other's homes and having to cook. It would be like having company all the time.

between full time jobs, taking care of our homes, and training for a marathon, we are busy.

We also want to attend a church that believes in the Oneness of God, Baptizes in Jesus Name, and doesn't enforce any non biblical standards, no, I'm not running a marathon in a dress, sorry.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'd be up for exploring it, my Sister doesn't want to though and whatever we do, we are going to do together. She thinks it sounds like too much work and commitment. She envisions taking turns having the meeting in each other's homes and having to cook. It would be like having company all the time.

between full time jobs, taking care of our homes, and training for a marathon, we are busy.

We also want to attend a church that believes in the Oneness of God, Baptizes in Jesus Name, and doesn't enforce any non biblical standards, no, I'm not running a marathon in a dress, sorry.

I understand.

But I'd like to propose something. Does your sister think this way because the traditional church has influenced her to think of church like a formal association instead of a "family"? After all... we are to address elders as "fathers", older sisters as "mothers", and one another as "brother" and "sister". The church should be a simple meeting that is more akin to family getting together than a formal "meeting" of sorts. When you're family, you walk in without knocking. When you're family you share food and resources joyfully. Ah... the mindset behind organic churching and traditional church are worlds apart. She's illustrating a fundamental problem with regards to how the institutional church can teach one to think wrongly regarding the body of Christ.

You don't have to host a meeting to go to one and see what it's like. And when you first start visiting a house church... no one expects you to bring anything. There's really no reason why one couldn't go to see how that specific house church does things. Maybe after a couple months you or your sister could choose to bring a covered dish or some soda to contribute. You have nothing to worry about.

[Amanah]

Viola, Frank
Pagan Christianity? : exploring the roots of our church practices /Frank Viola and George Barna. Tyndale, 2002, 2008

My conclusions:

I do think that the House church model most closely represents early Christianity.
Jesus lived with his disciples in community, teaching them with hands on training.

I don't think Jesus would approve of the hierarchy and organizational structures that we have created that elevate men to be god’s over the Lord’s people.

The early church functioned as a family, they met and prayed and broke bread with each other from house to house. The early church lived in community and met each other’s needs as if they were family members.

It is apparent that many of our church practices originated as the RCC laid a Christian veneer on pagan rituals and Greek philosophy and rhetoric.

However, I believe that the Church was born in prayer in an upper room on the day of Pentecost. And for any movement to truly be a replication of the early church it would also have to respond the way the early Church responded when Peter told them to repent, be baptized in Jesus’ name for the remission of their sins, and you will receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

[Amanah]

I enjoyed doing this, and want to thank all who read/responded.

I think I will find another book to read and will do this again.

But I will post the thread as a Blog, as someone pointed out that would be more appropriate.

Again, thanks for letting me have the fun of exploring this topic with you.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Viola, Frank
Pagan Christianity? : exploring the roots of our church practices /Frank Viola and George Barna. Tyndale, 2002, 2008

My conclusions:

I do think that the House church model most closely represents early Christianity.
Jesus lived with his disciples in community, teaching them with hands on training.

I don't think Jesus would approve of the hierarchy and organizational structures that we have created that elevate men to be god’s over the Lord’s people.

The early church functioned as a family, they met and prayed and broke bread with each other from house to house. The early church lived in community and met each other’s needs as if they were family members.

It is apparent that many of our church practices originated as the RCC laid a Christian veneer on pagan rituals and Greek philosophy and rhetoric.

However, I believe that the Church was born in prayer in an upper room on the day of Pentecost. And for any movement to truly be a replication of the early church it would also have to respond the way the early Church responded when Peter told them to repent, be baptized in Jesus’ name for the remission of their sins, and you will receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

Amen. I'd see nothing wrong with that. I really enjoyed this blog too. Another great book to read by Barna would be, Revolution. It's very good.

[AreYouReady?]

That was a pretty good synopsis of that book. Looking forward to your next blog.

[AreYouReady?]

Well...that was such a good synopsis that I went and bought the book for my own reading.

[citizen]

I read that book a little over a year ago and enjoyed it.
House churches have always been apart of the Church's 'DNA'. I kinda like that idea - but there's enough room to have both types of churches within the Body.