Common Myths about Gay Christians

[bbyrd009]

Well, I can agree with your position to the point of practice, by which I mean I seem to see your def of "gay Christian" as a Christian who was a homosexual, and now is not, but now ministers to gays, like "cutter Christians," who no longer cut, but minister to other cutters. I wonder how genuine this characterization really is, as that is not what comes to mind when I hear "gay Christian." I'm finding it difficult to believe that someone who escaped from homosexuality would define themselves as a "gay Christian?" I suggest to your "drug" friend that if he told the truth, and kept identifying himself as "Christian," he might know the only loving family he'll ever have, although it might be a little painful for a minute; truth hurts, especially when it is a "friend" that was actually a "fair-weather friend."

"Gay Christians" are simply Christians who are attaching their history and disposition on the front of their proclamation to let the whole world know."

Um, even though no one that matters should care a whit, and despite the truth that they are no longer gay? Ya...no. Not even on Saturday, sorry.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, on a personal level... I don't like the term "gay Christian" either. But those who demonstrate an understanding of faith, love, and repentance... I'm not going to beat them up over the term. There are far more important issues here.

Like...

How can we help "gay Christians" find healing, peace, love, and a secure family in the body of Christ? I was talking to a "gay Christian" a few years back at a church in Huber Heights, Ohio. He explained how he hates testimony services. I asked him why and he explained that his sin is one of the few sins one cannot stand up and boldly talk about. He says everyone is always suspect of his private life. He doesn't get a new start. He doesn't get a clean slate. If he falls back into sin he'll not be loved back up on his feet... he knows he'll be written off as a reprobate and find himself unwelcome in the body. So guess what he did... he made up a story about how he was addicted to "drugs". However, the story is his life story. It's just wherever the subject of his previous lifestyle comes into the picture... he uses the term "drugs". He feels so alone. I tried to explain to him that there are so many of us who don't judge him or look at him in that way and would actually stand with him to encourage his testimony. But he's afraid he'll loose the only loving family he's ever had. "Gay Christians" are simply Christians who are attaching their history and disposition on the front of their proclamation to let the whole world know.

Now... do some live like libertines? Yes. God knows who are His sheep and who are not. But to get mired down in an argument over the term "gay Christian" is a bit much in my opinion. Like I said before... we wouldn't criticize "Cutter Christians" as badly.

I can receive the point that a convert from homosexuality might not be as well received as a converted kleptomaniac... Perhaps your friend should just have kept it a bit general. "God has saved me from a life of sexual immorality" or something like that.

In the broader use of the term "Gay Christian" there is more at play, I think...

I think it's a safe bet that many of these would also believe God made them gay and are trying to impress this on the church.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Well, I can agree with your position to the point of practice, by which I mean I seem to see your def of "gay Christian" as a Christian who was a homosexual, and now is not, but now ministers to gays, like "cutter Christians," who no longer cut, but minister to other cutters. I wonder how genuine this characterization really is, as that is not what comes to mind when I hear "gay Christian." I'm finding it difficult to believe that someone who escaped from homosexuality would define themselves as a "gay Christian?" I suggest to your "drug" friend that if he told the truth, and kept identifying himself as "Christian," he might know the only loving family he'll ever have, although it might be a little painful for a minute; truth hurts, especially when it is a "friend" that was actually a "fair-weather friend."

"Gay Christians" are simply Christians who are attaching their history and disposition on the front of their proclamation to let the whole world know."

Um, even though no one that matters should care a whit, and despite the truth that they are no longer gay? Ya...no. Not even on Saturday, sorry.

But notice something... you're binding them according to your opinion instead of allowing them to define themselves and their motives.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. lol You are NOT the final abritrator of what everyone else should do. lol Why can't you find it in yourself to refrain from judgment and allow others to define their terms and identify themselves. The point is... in a church culture wherein ex-gays cannot even breathe of their past, where their faith is often suspect or challenged, where if their change isn't instantaneous they are regarded as being unrepentant, where if they live a celibate life and yet accept that same gender attraction is an issue they are told they are not truly saved, wherein it is thought that they can be counseled and "de-programmed" from being gay, wherein most are regarded as reprobates as though it is the unforgiable sin, wherein violence and harrassment against them are common, wherein their mere presence in the church is suspect because if they challenge traditional predudices and notions they are seen as "infiltrators"... and the list can go on, and on, and on. We treat this sin like it's worse than murder. We'd more likely forgive and accept a repentant murderer than one who has repented of a gay lifestyle and still struggles with same gender attraction. They want the church to know they exist. It's like a banner designed to challenge... you and I to drop the hate and fear filled notions we often hold.

[Aquila]

This entire thread has turned into a case in point. You guys are at war with the mere terminology they use. How could you possibly handle the reality of their plight, struggles, fears, failures, and the REAL situation they face.

I think... it's more comfortable to argue over the term "gay Christian" than to actually seek to get down into the nitty gritty of the issues they face and the reality of how they are perceived and received in our churches today.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

This entire thread has turned into a case in point. You guys are at war with the mere terminology they use. How could you possibly handle the reality of their plight, struggles, fears, failures, and the REAL situation they face.

I think... it's more comfortable to argue over the term "gay Christian" than to actually seek to get down into the nitty gritty of the issues they face and the reality of how they are perceived and received in our churches today.

Quite simply, no - It's not about what we are comfortable with. Conversion changes people. If someone claims to be a "murdering Christian" or "fornicating Christian" they would get the same critique.

To claim they are "inactive" is a diversion.

BTW I am totally fine with the term Ex-gay Christian.

[Truthseeker]

I guess we have some dope christians around here

swinger christians?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I can receive the point that a convert from homosexuality might not be as well received as a converted kleptomaniac... Perhaps your friend should just have kept it a bit general. "God has saved me from a life of sexual immorality" or something like that.

Oh boy…. I’m seeing this plain as day. And it seems like you guys are totally blind to it. Lol

It’s NOT right that an entire group of believers should have to have be gagged or modify their testimony. There is a fundamental PROBLEM with that. A failure of love and grace within the body. In the church I currently attend the pastor allowed a woman to address the congregation. While shaking like a leaf she told us her story from the gross physical, sexual, and emotional abuse and neglect she faced as a young girl and how being an orphan led her on a self destructive path that led to alcoholism and a lesbian lifestyle. She was a lesbian for over 20 years. She said that when she heard of Jesus she’d recoil in horror because Christians were so hateful and venomous towards her. She tried church once… it went VERY badly. She felt hated by the church, Christians, and even God Himself. Since she couldn’t believe that God would hate her personally, she rejected the God of the Bible. But one day a very close friend of hers started a conversation about Jesus that was on and off for nearly six months. As these conversations progressed our lesbian sister felt the love of Christ. She began to realize that He died be pay the price, judgment, and punishment her sin deserved. She began to realize that He loves her even though she’s unlovable because Jesus paid the penalty she deserved. She began to realize that she was on a path of self destruction and called out to Jesus to guide her. Her friend led her to our church and introduced her to our pastor for spiritual counsel (not deprogramming). She is now a baptized, spirit filled believer. She still has same gender attraction and therefore she still identifies herself as a lesbian. However, she no longer seeks the companionship of other women… she wants to live only for Christ and reach out to the lesbian community. She admitted that she can see a tough road ahead, a massive mountain to climb… but now she doesn’t feel alone because now Jesus is climbing that mountain with her. She begged us with tears to be her family. She asked us to have mercy on her. She pleaded with us never to give up on her if she falls or gives in to temptation. She expressed all that Jesus means to her and how she knows she can only have victory through the cross…not through behavior modification. She received a standing ovation… over 1,000 people in a standing ovation. For the first time in a long time… I was very proud of a church. Not a dry eye in the house. She said that after that meeting she had never been received more warmly or hugged more in her entire life. She’s my sister. And I will fight to the death to defend her and her faith…even if she falls. Even if the darkness closes in on her and in weakness she gives into temptation. She’s my sister. And I will always be there to pray with her and remind her of the cross. I will never give up on her. Even if… she goes through a period wherein she’s given up on herself.

Why should she have modified her testimony in other churches? Is it because they don’t come close to having the love and compassion necessary to really minister to her? I say it is. In fact, it’s the notion that she should have been gagged or her testimony modified that must be rebuked in our churches. And for that reason, I’m not surprised that so many want to use the term “gay Christian” so openly.

In the broader use of the term "Gay Christian" there is more at play, I think...

And historically “Christians” waged crusades and bloody wars. Bro… I know it’s easier to compartmentalize everyone into nice fitting little categories that are addressed various ways. But that’s not wise. When you hear someone say they are a “gay Christian”… don’t assume they are repentant and not living the lifestyle… also don’t assume they want to legitimize it and are living the lifestyle. Here’s an idea… don’t assume anything… ask and allow the individual in question to define what they mean and then go from there on a case by case basis. Now… that’s really listening to individuals and discerning rightly. Don’t condemn a repentant sinner because they use a term that un-repentant sinners might choose to use for other motivations. Mother Theresa was once asked who the most important person in the world was to her. She smiled and said that the most important person in the world to her was…whoever was standing in front of her in any given moment. Love like that. See like that. Live like that. Listen to people. Don’t categorize and walk away having ruled for or against them without even caring about them as people and the individual points they are making.

I think it's a safe bet that many of these would also believe God made them gay and are trying to impress this on the church.

God made us all… and we all were shaped in iniquity. Were we not? If they were “born gay”… all that means is that they were born with a sinful nature… just like you and me. The flesh is fallen and wicked. The flesh vile and has a sin nature in the womb, though no sin has been committed yet. The sin nature resides in ever aspect of our flesh like a time bomb ready to activate lustful desires of all sorts the moment temptation activates it. There is no good thing in our flesh. From the carnal mind down to our very biology… the principle of sin (being fallen creatures) is like a virus that has twisted our very design down to the genetic level. Many of them can testify that they were not abused. Many came from excellent homes. Many were deeply loved by friends and family. However, they will tell you that they NEVER felt attraction for the opposite gender. But one glance or touch from someone of the same gender brought all the biological responses that would normally result from the opposite gender in you and I. They will tell you that they never chose it. It wasn’t a choice to feel the chemistry. Many tried to hide it for years. Many caved in and chose to act on the feelings they feel. Many haven’t. Some have gone to such extents of self loathing they’ve attempted suicide. Some have tragically succeeded. If a gay person tells me that they were “born” that way. I have no issue with the claim. I was “born” a sinner too. It’s a sin nature… and we all have one. And yes, God allowed this condition to befall man for His own glory in man’s story of redemption.

The point is…even if we accept their testimony that they were “born” the way they are… it doesn’t mean that they’re behavior is justified. It doesn’t mean that their condition is God’s intention for them as human beings. It only demonstrates that they were indeed born with a sin nature. We have the face the fact that they were “born that way”, i.e. born with a “sin nature”. We have to face the fact that this “sin nature” may be a thorn in their flesh for their entire lives. And we have to face the fact that we have to minister to them as we do any other person. And we have to have much grace and compassion for their struggle.

Please note…hormonal imbalances in development have often leads to all sorts of gender confusion both in the brain development and physiology. I watched a documentary on “eunuchs” from India and it was very informative. Of course… our church culture denies the existence of such conditions or how they might apply to certain individuals in our own culture.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Quite simply, no - It's not about what we are comfortable with. Conversion changes people. If someone claims to be a "murdering Christian" or "fornicating Christian" they would get the same critique.

To claim they are "inactive" is a diversion.

BTW I am totally fine with the term Ex-gay Christian.

I'd be happen with ex-gay Christian. I'd be most happy with just "Christian".

I guess you'd reject the "Cutter Christians"???

I really don't think you folks are getting what I'm saying here. You CAN'T force others to define terms as you do. YOU have to allow others to explain and define themselves. We are not the abritrators of what words everyone should or should not use. Now... the term "gay Christian" does bother some. But that's THEIR issue with the term. If used to express the reality of a Christian who was gay and is now repentant and seeking to follow Jesus... there is no issue on their end.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

BTW I am totally fine with the term Ex-gay Christian.

Should we send a memo to the entire planet so that they know what term you're totally fine with? Or are you going to address individuals who use the term individually, seeking to understand them as individuals?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I guess we have some dope christians around here

swinger christians?

Not getting it. Are you the final arbitrator of what terms everyone should use? Yes or no?

Will you reject an entire class of believer over a... term... without allowing them to clarify it individually? Wow. That's real shallow dude.