The Marriage Contract

[J4Truth]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

J4truth, did you read any of the articles posted here? A lot of the answers you seek are in those articles.

Sorry, I'll admit I didn't read them. Well if my answers are in there, I'll go back and look at them then.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by J4Truth

I see it as simply the government acknowledges marriage between 2 individuals and offers licenses as a way to protect the parties involved. Sure you can get the near the same protected rights by going through attorneys and wills and all the necessary documentation that a marriage license seems to more easily solve.

Now my questions is, we as Christians must obey the law of the land unless it goes against our faith. So, we as Christians, is it against our faith for the government to acknowledge marriage and require licenses establishing the fact?

First, there is nothing illegal about a couple having a private ceremony and declaring themselves "married" without a legal "marriage license". It's not illegal to call your other half your "husband" or "wife" even though you're not legally married. However, if you file taxes "claiming to be legally married"... that would be illegal. So a government free marriage isn't illegal.

Consider the Quakers. It's not uncommon for some Quaker couples to marry through self-officiated ceremonies without a marriage license. Now, their faith community suggests that should they choose to do this, they should consult an attorney to sure up how to secure certain legal rights and benefits... but it's ultimately up to the couple. Are their marriages "illegal"???

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

If a couple wants to obtain a marital government license for all the perks that go along with it and for "protection" of all parties involved, that is none of my business. I would never tell a person not to make that choice. But remember that the government is not simply 'acknowledging' a marriage contract, they are the superior party in the marriage triangle. It is a contract between man and wife with the authorities over your marriage and over your children, which is considered to be the 'fruit' of this three-way contract.

There is no biblical precedent where a man and woman must obtain a license for marriage. Consider that having a government that does not acknowledge God in a couple's marriage license contract might just go against our faith for God to be the supreme authority over our marriage, children life and home? The state does not take in account our Creator at all in this contract.

Excellent points.

Would a man and woman still be considered husband and wife in God's eyes if they had a marriage ceremony and made vows before God without a state-granted license?

I believe so... Quakers often marry without state-granted licenses.

"Some couples choose to marry within the meeting without registering their marriage with the government, a tradition dating back to Quakerism's earliest days. Meetings generally encourage couples to seek legal advice before undertaking this option." ~ Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaker_wedding

I believe that these Quakers are truly husband and wife in God's eyes, even though they may not have registered their marriage with the government. Therefore... why couldn't any other couple be "married in God's eyes" by doing the same???

If it isn't possible to be "married in God's eyes" without a marriage license registering your marriage with the state... all of these devout Quakers would be "living in sin".

[Aquila]

Think about this...

In 2010, "unmarried" households were 45% of all U.S. households. - U.S. Census Bureau. "America's Families and Living Arrangements: 2010".

I think we should ask WHY so many are choosing to cohabitate rather than become legally married. Perhaps it's because of the serious legal dangers and risks built into the institution of marriage today... dangers essentially designed by the GOVERNMENT. Never before could a man loose so much should the marriage fail. There are men reduced to near destitution as a result of a divorce. Is it possible that this 45% of all U.S. households are wanting to preserve themselves and avoid the dangers of the legal system... acknowledging that should their relationship fail... they'd rather deal with it privately???

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by J4Truth

God is always the supreme authority.

While God is always the Supreme Authority in the Christian life, sadly He is not acknowledged in modern government contractual decisions.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by llambert

The more I think about this issue, the more I'm in agreement with government-free marriage, although it certainly goes against almost everything I was taught in both church and my culture. To say that you need permission from the state to marry is to put a bunch of other human beings in the mix of your relationship with the spouse God gave you.

It's hard to break free from traditional teachings. If I were young and contemplating marriage, I would feel a lot of angst about marrying without a legal marriage license as I would not be able to legally take my husband's name.

Any children born may take his name though...depending upon the state I presume. (I could very well be wrong on this one.)

Originally Posted by llambert

In slavery times, slaves didn't/weren't allowed to have marriage licenses. I don't think their homes were broken up by them cheating or sleeping with other people so much as it was that one or both parties were sold to other masters.

I think africans and african-americans are the most exploited people upon the face of the earth. Breaking up their family units in the past did them quite a disservice today. Plus, the people of the world would be shocked to know what kind of experiments were performed on them without their knowledge or consent. We should be praying and asking God for His special blessings upon this community of people.

Originally Posted by llambert

In some cultures, it is taught that you need to have a license and a large official ceremony so that you will be reminded of the vow that you made and keep it when times get rough. But honestly this doesn't really hold water. How many people have gotten pregnant and were forced/pressured into getting married when they really didn't want to? On the other hand, if people are serious about each being committed to each other, why do they need to make a pledge to all of society?

You are so right when you say this doesn't hold water. More couples are divorcing now than ever before. Legal issues do not hold them together. Only their love for each other and their commitment for God in their marriage will hold them together. And you are right again when you ask if they need to make a pledge to all of society. The more people in the middle of your marriage, the more meddling there is within the marriage. What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.

Originally Posted by llambert

Another thing that strikes me is that a whole lot of money is generated in the industry of marriage.

And finally, all of the hoopla over same sex marriage and polygamy- activists are profiting from polarizing people over these issues. People need to be born again. If someone has 4 wives, when he gets saved, I believe God will deal with him and show him which one is the real God-given wife and what to do about any financial/social ties to the other 3. As for same sex marriage, once at least one of the persons commits his/her soul to Jesus, God will give them the grace to show them what to do. I've heard of cases where same sex couples dissolved their relationship, divided up the property and broke ties without huge drama. We need to be in communion and commitment with Christ.

My husband came home from a service years ago when a missionary told of a story about a tribal leader having 6 wives. The tribal leader came to the missionary to ask him a question. He wanted to know that now that he is a Holy Ghost filled Christian, what is he to do about his 6 wives? It was tribal custom to have many wives. Perhaps the minister was speaking under the anointing when he told the leader to go and sin no more and take no more wives. Support the ones he has, but do not take any more wives.

I believe that the Holy Ghost will privately instruct the tribal leader into doing God's will in this matter.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

My husband came home from a service years ago when a missionary told of a story about a tribal leader having 6 wives. The tribal leader came to the missionary to ask him a question. He wanted to know that now that he is a Holy Ghost filled Christian, what is he to do about his 6 wives? It was tribal custom to have many wives. Perhaps the minister was speaking under the anointing when he told the leader to go and sin no more and take no more wives. Support the ones he has, but do not take any more wives.

I believe that the Holy Ghost will privately instruct the tribal leader into doing God's will in this matter.

Very balanced advice.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by J4Truth

God is always the supreme authority.

I'm only asking if its against the Christian faith to obtain a marriage license. And is it illegal to be married privately without getting a marriage license from the state. If its alright to marry privately but you just don't get the marriage benefits from the state than it really doesn't matter either way (in other words the state don't care, as much as they don't really care if 2 people are living together unmarried), but if its illegal to marry privately than the question is are we allowed to break this law in favor of our Faith.

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. So, I would say if it bothers your conscience to get a marriage license, then DON'T. If it does not bother your conscience, if you understand the marriage license is essentially irrelevant in th elarger scheme of things, then don't worry about it.

Another question, do the government have more or less authority over your children, the "fruit" of the three way contract, if you're married or not? (This is a legitimate question because I want to know if there's a difference.)

The state has no more authority over your children than what you allow. Having a marriage license does not 'grant' more authority to the state over your children. Has anyone EVER had a court or government official ever OFFICIALLY declare that 'because you got a marriage license, we the state have a priority interest and authority in and over your children, but if you didn't have that license we can't do ro say a thing about it?' Of course not. The license, while possibly verging on the 'pinch of incense to Caesar' principle, does not actually grant 'more' of anything to anyone.

[quoteAnother question, is divorce always messy? Or do it depends on the parties involved. I'm asking, if the two parties come to an agreement can they dissolve the marriage and walk away with nearly the same repercussions, conditions, as with a private marriage?[/quote]

Divorce involves the state, which may in fact be necessary because of issues regarding property and the disposition thereof.

And another thing, I believe that if you made the vows before God with all the intentions of being married together, than yes before God you are married, but I was only asking if you are now breaking some law by not getting a state issued license. Or if the license only matters if you want benefits from the state for you marriage.

I have never had to show a marriage license for anything, period.

And I don't know what special 'benefits' you get from having one.

Benefits from the state always come with strings attached.

[AreYouReady?]

Perhaps the only benefits a couple gets from having a legal marriage license would be tax benefits?

Isn't this one of the reasons why the gays and lesbians want to be legally married?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Perhaps the only benefits a couple gets from having a legal marriage license would be tax benefits?

Isn't this one of the reasons why the gays and lesbians want to be legally married?

Primarily. There are benefits with regards to certain benefits, especially if a spouse dies. But wills and that sort of thing can nearly cover that. Some places have "Domestic Partner" laws that allow anyone to confer marriage like benefits to their companion regardless of relationship status.