Why I am Now Convinced of a Pre-Trib Rapture

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Simple.... to show John the bride, he had to first describe the brides' hangout. Then the bride was shown.

He did not say the city was the brid'es hangout. he said it was the bride. Show me the term HANGOUT in that chapter. You want to be literal. Let's be literal. Show me where John was told the bride was INSIDE or GOING OT BE INSIDE the city.

Whatever happened to your King James onlyism? The KJV says the BRIDE IS THE CITY. Not IN the city.

Want to know why?

Mat 5:14 KJV Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Just be patient next time you read it bro. You will see the bride eventually. Chill and read. Dont jump to conclusions and read the whole chapter.

You are reading it wrong. Stop twisting it and let it say what it says. He said the CITY IS THE BRIDE.

He said he would show John the BRIDE, and JOHN SAW THE CITY. He was not told it was the abode of the bride.

Now answer all my questions.

You never answer them.

Why do we have to be raptured to see a city that is now invisible? How is the rapture going to change our sight so that invisible physical things today are visible then? And you say the rapture will take us to heaven, not leave us in the earth.

So, if we already came to the invisible city and we're here on earth with it, but it's invisible, how are we going to "leave" the earth to be able to see what is "down here on earth" where we already are, and yet is going to come down to earth out of heaven later? We have to LEAVE something that is invisibly all around us NOW before we can SEE IT?

Is it going to race us to heaven when the rapture takes place and suddenly become visible. That'll be some fast hopping city, if we're in it now and it's invisible on earth and we are raptured in a twinkling of an eye but yet it beats us to heaven. Not only that, it beats us to heaven and then turns around and comes back out of and then turns right around to come back down to earth , and all that before we even get to heaven in the rapture!!!! Wow, that is one moving city!

And how is the rapture going to make us see something that is already physical if we cannot see it now? How can something be physical and invisible at the same time?

You cannot answer any of these these questions. But will revert to lies about us again concerning Rev 21.

Then you said more nonsense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
We, the church are surrounded by the invisible realities!!!
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...1&postcount=47

How can something PHYSICAL be an invisible reality now? If it's PHYSICAL WE CAN SEE IT, and it cannot invisible. So, explain to us how we wil see something that is physical but currently invisible and yet we're surrounded by it right now.

And again, how can we LEAVE THE EARTH in the rapture to see something that we're al;ready surrounded with now?

And how can we be surrounded with it now if it has not even come out of the heaven yet?

You cannot answer any of these questions because you know they're absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical.

You believe we're surrounded by a physical city but it's invisible. Yet you believe we will leave the earth , which means we have to leave the invisible city that is surrounding us right now, so we can see the invisible city later! But we leave it to see it? And you believe we're in the city that is surrounding us now, that is physical and invisible, and yet it is also going to come out of heaven to the earth, but yet it's supposed to be already on earth surrounding us now.

That is most nonsensical stuff I ever heard. And you try to make us look silly? lol

[mfblume]

Sean why was the CITY ADORNED LIKE A BRIDE before anybody was in it?

You are making things up as you go. lol. the city was the hangout. the people not even inside it are the bride, and John was told the bride was in the sky.

you are making all of this up and you never believed these details before I asked you these questions. And the answers you give are ridiculous.

[Sean]

Lemme fix Hebrews 12 for ya....
There are 6 entities described here. 5 are invisible but 1 is visible. The visible entity is "come" unto the invisible entities. The church is now considered connected to the invisible kingdom and its entities.

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion,(#1-invisible) and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,(#2-invisible) and to an innumerable company of angels,(#3-invisible)

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,(#4-visible) and to God the Judge of all,(#5-invisible) and to the spirits of just men made perfect,(#6-invisible)




That what Jesus was speaking of concerning the man seeing or entering into the kingdom of God(visible entering into invisible, rubbing shoulders with these multiple invisible entities)....

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Lemme fix Hebrews 12 for ya....
There are 6 entities described here. 5 are invisible but 1 is visible. The visible entity is "come" unto the invisible entities.

That's exactly right. You have to "FIX" Hebrews 12:22 and cannot leaveit as it is. And yet you say you go only by the KJV.


Telling me what you think is visible and invisible is pointless. I already read you say that. But say HOW we can be in the invisible and later it become visible when we leave it to go to heaven to find it there when it was supposed to be in the earth before we left the earth?

[/COLOR]
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion,(#1-invisible) and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,(#2-invisible) and to an innumerable company of angels,(#3-invisible)

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,(#4-visible) and to God the Judge of all,(#5-invisible) and to the spirits of just men made perfect,(#6-visible)

None of that answers my questions. Answer my questions this time.

Why do we have to be raptured to see a city that is now invisible? How is the rapture going to change our sight so that invisible physical things today are visible then? And you say the rapture will take us to heaven, not leave us in the earth.

So, if we already came to the invisible city and we're here on earth with it, but it's invisible, how are we going to "leave" the earth to be able to see what is "down here on earth" where we already are, and yet is going to come down to earth out of heaven later? We have to LEAVE something that is invisibly all around us NOW before we can SEE IT?

Is it going to race us to heaven when the rapture takes place and suddenly become visible. That'll be some fast hopping city, if we're in it now and it's invisible on earth and we are raptured in a twinkling of an eye but yet it beats us to heaven. Not only that, it beats us to heaven and then turns around and comes back out of and then turns right around to come back down to earth , and all that before we even get to heaven in the rapture!!!! Wow, that is one moving city!

And how is the rapture going to make us see something that is already physical if we cannot see it now? How can something be physical and invisible at the same time?

You cannot answer any of these these questions. But will revert to lies about us again concerning Rev 21.

Then you said more nonsense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
We, the church are surrounded by the invisible realities!!!
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...1&postcount=47

How can something PHYSICAL be an invisible reality now? If it's PHYSICAL WE CAN SEE IT, and it cannot invisible. So, explain to us how we wil see something that is physical but currently invisible and yet we're surrounded by it right now.

And again, how can we LEAVE THE EARTH in the rapture to see something that we're already surrounded with now?

And how can we be surrounded with it now if it has not even come out of the heaven yet?

You cannot answer any of these questions because you know they're absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical.

You believe we're surrounded by a physical city but it's invisible. Yet you believe we will leave the earth , which means we have to leave the invisible city that is surrounding us right now, so we can see the invisible city later! But we leave it to see it? And you believe we're in the city that is surrounding us now, that is physical and invisible, and yet it is also going to come out of heaven to the earth, but yet it's supposed to be already on earth surrounding us now.

That is most nonsensical stuff I ever heard. And you try to make us look silly? lol

How can we be surrounded by something that has not even come out of heaven to the earth yet?

lol

[mfblume]

The simple truth is, brother, you cannot answer me. So see ya later.

[Sean]

I dont need to, I dont need to answer false doctrines, I only teach truth. You must debunk the plain truth I show you my brother to win...Love ya!

Gotta get sleeeep!

[mfblume]

lol

At least be honest and say you can't answer. I already debunked all you said so far.

God bless!

[mfblume]

Meanwhile a CITY JERUSALEM was called a whore and harlot earlier. But that was OLD Jerusalem.

Eze 16:2 KJV Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

Eze 16:15 KJV But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

Isa 1:21 KJV How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Rev 17:18 KJV And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

THE WOMAN IS THE CITY!

And using the same figurative language, the NEW version of the CITY is a BRIDE - opposite of the whore.

the whore is OLD JERUSALEM - who crucified Jesus.

Rev 11:8 KJV And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

She is BABYLON, SODOM and EGYPT. She is turned into all things the true Israelites had to come out of in the Old Testament. She became what persecuted her when she persecuted the church, the BRIDE. Now the CHURCH is the NEW Jerusalem.


Rev 21:2 KJV And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

Lemme fix Hebrews 12 for ya....
There are 6 entities described here. 5 are invisible but 1 is visible. The visible entity is "come" unto the invisible entities. The church is now considered connected to the invisible kingdom and its entities.

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion,(#1-invisible) and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,(#2-invisible) and to an innumerable company of angels,(#3-invisible)

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,(#4-visible) and to God the Judge of all,(#5-invisible) and to the spirits of just men made perfect,(#6-invisible)




That what Jesus was speaking of concerning the man seeing or entering into the kingdom of God(visible entering into invisible, rubbing shoulders with these multiple invisible entities)....

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Also check this out folks......


The Bible says "ye are come" ...

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

This passage clearly denotes an existing heavenly city of Jerusalem that we come to.




This is what the preterist thinks it says here...

22 But (ye have become) mount Sion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

This is how they change the meaning of the scripture without you realizing it.

[mfblume]

No Sea. the CITY stands for the church. And we COME TO THE CHURCH and are in it. As individuals we are sons and daughters. But the BODY is the church and the city. Heb 12 is speaking of us as individuals. WE COME TO THE CHURCH. the CITY is the church. The individual is not the church.

Now, once again, you're not answering me. How can we have COME TO IT if it's not even down on earth yet and still needs to come to earth from heaven?