Any experience with Jehovah Witnesses?

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i think doctrine, period, is wrong, due to the fact that it takes the focus away from where it should be. There was a time for doctrine, and i wouldn't condemn any OP doctrine, but they are judged by their fruits also--and OP borders are no longer increasing. While it may seem sad, i think God has a better idea. OP was a huge force for good.

I don't want to run Esaias' thread clear off track so maybe this should be a new thread.....but I am really curious as to what you believe replaces doctrine and biblically where do you establish such a precedent?

[Praxeas]

Joh_7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It's all the rage on AFF these days to be boldly proclaiming that Jesus is not God, he is not the Father, speaking in tongues is a quaint but optional relic of old times, baptism is not a necessity, certainly not to the point of needing it done in the name of Jesus Christ, Muslims are saved, Christians are to blame for the mid east wars, OPs are terrorists while jihadis are on their way to streets of gold, etc etc.

Esaias, you strike me as a Godly person, and i think no less of you for holding the opinions you do. However, i also see the futility in adhering to doctrine over grace. Does it really matter that you cannot quote Christ claiming to be the Father? Is it so important that you accept glossololia, where i would demand xenoglossy? And what does it matter if you hold your mouth right while baptizing, if there is no repentance of sins?

And it was Christ Who commanded that we follow the Good Samaritan; i do not judge "lost" or "saved." Can anything good come from Islam, Esaias? As for Christians responsible for mideast wars, yikes, just follow the money, no puzzle there. Wanna see a map of US bases in the mideast? It is telling. Are there OP terrorists? Surely, just as there are loving, enlightened OPs, and everything in between. "Jihad" can be translated "holy war," or "struggle," and the defining determines a Muslim heart, just like with us.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by bishoph

I don't want to run Esaias' thread clear off track so maybe this should be a new thread.....but I am really curious as to what you believe replaces doctrine and biblically where do you establish such a precedent?

i like this one:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Joh_7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

and i would simply replace doctrine with anything red letter that one can quote in context. Loving ones enemies is very hard. So is humility. Condemning others for (insert verse here) is easy. Just ask satan.

And i don't mean to imply that anyone's doctrine is wrong--just that it is for self application, and is too easily turned against other people, and becomes exclusionary. Don't we have Scripture for seeking doctrines, when Christ is right there to be followed?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I was asking if you had any experiences with JWs, not theories about what may (or may not) be effective, but actual experiences.
God allowed these folks to come to our door. We live in a VERY rural area, NOBODY and I mean N.O.B.O.D.Y. just goes driving down the road in this area knocking on doors unless they live in this area (and even then...)
I have encountered JWs before. The first time, years ago, they asked 'We were wondering if you were concerned about the lack of love in the world today?' to which I responded with 'Have you been born again? Have you repented, been baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and received the gift of the Holy Ghost?' I went into a testifyin' mode about the Holy Ghost and how our great God the creator became a man and died on a cross to save us all from the Second Death, and how we can have the Holy Ghost today just like they did in the Bible. The two women literally had their eyes buggin out as they backed down the sidewalk and said 'well, we have to go now...'
Never came back, never saw them again. I know JWs believe that 'pentecostals' are the worst of the worse 'cults', and they generally just run (not walk) away as soon as they figure out you are pentecostal (specially if they discover you are one of those Jesus Only types...lol).
So I took a different approach when they came by this time. I was friendly, listened to everything they had to say, never interrupted, established 'rapport' (it's not hard if you are GENUINELY friendly and interested in other people!) and just asked a few questions I had about how they understood certain passages of Scripture.
We had a nice time on my porch. They were shocked to find that there are people in this area that actually do read and study the Bible, and try to live it as well. Since we believe in what people call 'soul sleep' and conditional immortality that totally disarmed them on that front. They were likewise surprised when I started talking about how 'you know, some people think there's a trinity, and they believe that God sent somebody ELSE to create the heavens and earth...' They weren't quite sure what to do with that.
I actually had the elder lady (obviously the more experienced worker) admitting 'well, you got me there! I really don't know...'
They went next door (and ran into my daughters) and the man whose turn it was to door knock got a clear presentation of the apostles' doctrine. In fact, at one point they had him on the ropes pointing out what scripture says and then asking him 'do you deny that?' He had no answer, then at one point he actually agreed with the fact Jesus is God. He got scared (eyes buggin out, just like the first ones I ever met) when the Holy Ghost baptism came up.
Unlike my previous experiences with JWs however, these folks left on good terms. They didn't just try to extricate themselves from our porches, and get away, they seemed genuinely intrigued about us. I am praying somehow God will open a door of utterance to present the truth of what a wonderful Saviour JESUS CHRIST really is, and how they too do not have to be content with just reading about God in the Bible but can actually have what the apostles and early Christians had.
I just am at a loss as to the best way to handle this from this point on, I've never had anything more than a 'battle' with JWs, this seems different.
For Jermyn, keep in mind - JWs are people, too, lost JUST LIKE YOU WERE. But somebody has to reach out to them. They may be 'heretics' but hey when I was a SATANIST the Lord reached out to me ANYWAY and thank God he didn't write me off.
We shouldn't write these people off, either. Now, if the Word is opened up to them and they DECIDE to close their eyes and go back to sleep, that's their decision and God help them but we have to move on. But until somebody REJECTS the gospel, we are COMMANDED to do what we can by the grace of God to preach it to them, one way or another.

Beloved, that's not a theory. That's one of two approaches I use.
Regardless, it's enough to cause them to call me "brother"!

The other approach I use is to ask them what is the gospel. Invariably, they
will give me the "definition"...which is "The Good News". I agree with their
definition, but again ask what is the gospel. This takes up to four repetitions.
I end up teaching them the gospel, and I can see where "...one will draw near,
and the other will be sent away."

I NEVER invite to the temple: always invite to know the YAH(-weh) of the
New Testament.

"...for the work of the ministry..."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Beloved, that's not a theory. That's one of two approaches I use.
Regardless, it's enough to cause them to call me "brother"!

The other approach I use is to ask them what is the gospel. Invariably, they
will give me the "definition"...which is "The Good News". I agree with their
definition, but again ask what is the gospel. This takes up to four repetitions.
I end up teaching them the gospel, and I can see where "...one will draw near,
and the other will be sent away."

I NEVER invite to the temple: always invite to know the YAH(-weh) of the
New Testament.

"...for the work of the ministry..."

So can you give a breakdown of what this looks like in actual practice? "They say xyz, I say abc, there response is usually..."

Also, have you ever known a JW to become apostolic?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So can you give a breakdown of what this looks like in actual practice? "They say xyz, I say abc, there response is usually..."

Also, have you ever known a JW to become apostolic?

JWs for one thing aren't supposed to waste their time with anyone who isn't interested in their teaching. Yes, they have converted from the Watchtower to the Apostolic faith, but first (my own personal experience) it had to be done through friendship. Love (God's love) through you is what touches off the relationship. Bible studying with two JWs (who were raised in the Watchtower) for years, were only won through diligence and patience, being able to use their translation to show them that Jesus is God the Father. But, if they aren't sincere honest individuals you can cast all the pearl and all that is holy unto them and they still will reject every single word you give them.

My only advise is this, you have a whole lot of people within a few mile radius around you who want what you have to offer them. You may find that the effort you give to debating insincere JWs, Mormons, and SDAs is wasted when you could be feeding the hungry lost sheep of Christ.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

JWs for one thing aren't supposed to waste their time with anyone who isn't interested in their teaching. Yes, they have converted from the Watchtower to the Apostolic faith, but first (my own personal experience) it had to be done through friendship. Love (God's love) through you is what touches off the relationship. Bible studying with two JWs (who were raised in the Watchtower) for years, were only won through diligence and patience, being able to use their translation to show them that Jesus is God the Father. But, if they aren't sincere honest individuals you can cast all the pearl and all that is holy unto them and they still will reject every single word you give them.

My only advise is this, you have a whole lot of people within a few mile radius around you who want what you have to offer them. You may find that the effort you give to debating insincere JWs, Mormons, and SDAs is wasted when you could be feeding the hungry lost sheep of Christ.

Thank you for the advice. I will pray about this situation. Pray for us, will you?

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

????

Bro, the jw's are heretics. They are not Christians. They are unsaved. Lost. Cursed.

Until they come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ, they will die in their sins.

My language concerning the jw's and mormons is strong, but it is my opinion of them, based on the Bible.

They change/add to the scriptures. I have no tolerance for their doctrines. They are CLEARLY HERETICAL.

So are trinitarians....

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Judging religious people on their doctrine IS the right approach. Ask the Apostle Paul.

Amen