Is this becoming an EX-Pentecostal site?

[SDG]

Here is another of these type threads ... initiated by the King of Bi-Polar Thread starters ....

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ight=apostolic

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Here is another of these type threads ... initiated by the King of Bi-Polar Thread starters ....

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ight=apostolic

Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

"Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."

Does that make you feel better Daniel?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

"Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."

Does that make you feel better Daniel?

What a post!!!!!!!!!!!

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

"Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."

Does that make you feel better Daniel?

This is probably one of the best posts I've seen on this thread PP, are you the one who really came up with it? LOL! No seriously, you've brought up a very good point, but I/m sure you'll get blasted for this one.

[Hegavmelif]

[QUOTE=Pastor Poster;153281]Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

...What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."


WOW! I was fine until I got to this part of your speech. Here is my response to the attitude in these two paragraphs...

I have been in the UPC movement for 3 generations and my wife for 4 generations. We love this truth and have instilled a love for it and the Holy God who sanctioned it. HOWEVER, over the last 20 years, we have watched ministry in the UPC ranks become rich and increased with goods to the extent that it is sinful! We see and know men and women in the ministry, pastors and the families, who think that they are not supposed to fellowship with the saints; pastors wives who will not even speak to the saints who pay for her $1 million home, clothes, expensive cars and trips, her children's education, etc; pastors who take in 100% of the tithes ($1.5 to $3 Million a year) and don't account for a penny of it; pastors who hunt, fish, and golf: pastors who travel and go to every conference around the continential U.S. and are never available for the sick and elderly in their churches.

YEA, we need sacrifice back in the church, but it needs to start with the leaders, not the saints. GOD himself became the sacrificial example for us all through sonship and death. SACRIFICE begins at the top.

Sell your motorhomes, sell your fishing camps, sell your million dollar+ homes and start fasting and praying and you will see a change in the saints of GOD!

[Steve Epley]

[QUOTE=Hegavmelif;160832]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

...What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."


WOW! I was fine until I got to this part of your speech. Here is my response to the attitude in these two paragraphs...

I have been in the UPC movement for 3 generations and my wife for 4 generations. We love this truth and have instilled a love for it and the Holy God who sanctioned it. HOWEVER, over the last 20 years, we have watched ministry in the UPC ranks become rich and increased with goods to the extent that it is sinful! We see and know men and women in the ministry, pastors and the families, who think that they are not supposed to fellowship with the saints; pastors wives who will not even speak to the saints who pay for her $1 million home, clothes, expensive cars and trips, her children's education, etc; pastors who take in 100% of the tithes ($1.5 to $3 Million a year) and don't account for a penny of it; pastors who hunt, fish, and golf: pastors who travel and go to every conference around the continential U.S. and are never available for the sick and elderly in their churches.

YEA, we need sacrifice back in the church, but it needs to start with the leaders, not the saints. GOD himself became the sacrificial example for us all through sonship and death. SACRIFICE begins at the top.

Sell your motorhomes, sell your fishing camps, sell your million dollar+ homes and start fasting and praying and you will see a change in the saints of GOD!

Where these guys pastoring??????????????? Are there any churches open??
Just joking.

[Hegavmelif]

[QUOTE=Steve Epley;160843]

Originally Posted by Hegavmelif

Where these guys pastoring??????????????? Are there any churches open??
Just joking.

We spend half a year in California and half a year in Mississippi. I have friends in this movement in a few other states. Most of them just live too high and do not sacrifice like their saints do. On the other hand, I do see some men and their families who pastor and struggle for years in home mission works. Our larger churches should do more for home missions families...but that is a whole new issue all to itself.

[Nahum]

[QUOTE=Hegavmelif;160832]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

...What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."


WOW! I was fine until I got to this part of your speech. Here is my response to the attitude in these two paragraphs...

I have been in the UPC movement for 3 generations and my wife for 4 generations. We love this truth and have instilled a love for it and the Holy God who sanctioned it. HOWEVER, over the last 20 years, we have watched ministry in the UPC ranks become rich and increased with goods to the extent that it is sinful! We see and know men and women in the ministry, pastors and the families, who think that they are not supposed to fellowship with the saints; pastors wives who will not even speak to the saints who pay for her $1 million home, clothes, expensive cars and trips, her children's education, etc; pastors who take in 100% of the tithes ($1.5 to $3 Million a year) and don't account for a penny of it; pastors who hunt, fish, and golf: pastors who travel and go to every conference around the continential U.S. and are never available for the sick and elderly in their churches.

YEA, we need sacrifice back in the church, but it needs to start with the leaders, not the saints. GOD himself became the sacrificial example for us all through sonship and death. SACRIFICE begins at the top.

Sell your motorhomes, sell your fishing camps, sell your million dollar+ homes and start fasting and praying and you will see a change in the saints of GOD!

Look, I have been living extremely sacrificially for many years now. If you only knew the extent of it. I have given literally everything I have to God.

My house is small, my vehicle is a minivan that is seven years old, and my camper is a pop-up. The reason why I fish is because it is relaxing and cheap entertainment.

There is definitely abuse by some.

But sacrifice should be an equal opportunity Christian experience. We shouldn't demand leadership to sacrifice when laity isn't willing to either.

[mizpeh]

[QUOTE=Pastor Poster;161343]

Originally Posted by Hegavmelif

Look, I have been living extremely sacrificially for many years now. If you only knew the extent of it. I have given literally everything I have to God.

My house is small, my vehicle is a minivan that is seven years old, and my camper is a pop-up. The reason why I fish is because it is relaxing and cheap entertainment.

There is definitely abuse by some.

But sacrifice should be an equal opportunity Christian experience. We shouldn't demand leadership to sacrifice when laity isn't willing to either.

Amen. We will all reap what we sow. This is the patience of the saints.

[QUOTE=Pastor Poster;161343]

Originally Posted by Hegavmelif

Look, I have been living extremely sacrificially for many years now. If you only knew the extent of it. I have given literally everything I have to God.

My house is small, my vehicle is a minivan that is seven years old, and my camper is a pop-up. The reason why I fish is because it is relaxing and cheap entertainment.

There is definitely abuse by some.

But sacrifice should be an equal opportunity Christian experience. We shouldn't demand leadership to sacrifice when laity isn't willing to either.

I don't think a pastor owning things, boats, cars, campers, and homes is abuse. Conversely, pastors shouldn't feel they need to quantify the lack of their belongings in order to try and prove that they have taken an Apostolic vow of poverty in order to garner respect.

Frankly, it is none of anyone's business (except in the rare case of a leader breaking the law) what the pastor drives, where he lives, or how much he spends on suits.

I am so sick and tired of Apostolic Socialism.