Drunk in the Spirit

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Prove it by scripture.

Off topic somewhat, but my pioneer preacher grandfather encountered two cases where people were speaking in false tongues.
Which he believed was under the influence of Satan.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Off topic somewhat, but my pioneer preacher grandfather encountered two cases where people were speaking in false tongues.
Which he believed was under the influence of Satan.

How could he know? "Tongues of men and of angels"...what language(s) do angels speak?

If Satan can cause people to speak in tongues, can he cause people to have a false gift of healing? A false gift of miracles?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Off topic somewhat, but my pioneer preacher grandfather encountered two cases where people were speaking in false tongues.
Which he believed was under the influence of Satan.

And how was that known?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Paul asked Spirit-filled believers in I Corinthians "Do all speak in tongues?" If not all are apostles, teachers, etc. Then not all believers speak in tongues.

surely you know there's a difference between the gift of tongues and evidence of Spirit baptism. like the gift of faith and general faith.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by mfblume

surely you know there's a difference between the gift of tongues and evidence of Spirit baptism. like the gift of faith and general faith.

Of course he knows...

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by mfblume

surely you know there's a difference between the gift of tongues and evidence of Spirit baptism. like the gift of faith and general faith.

That's an Apostolic construct to maintain the false doctrine of "initial evidence". Speaking in tongues is AN evidence of Spirit baptism but not exclusively. Tongues according to Paul are for personal edification, as a sign to unbelievers, and for the purpose of interpretation in a public gathering.

Many modern Apostolics/Pentecostals have made tongues into a sign to believers---a means of validating who has been baptized in the Spirit or who is truly saved, because you know, we have to play God and decide who is and who isn't going to heaven. We have to be in control and let everybody know "hey this guy is one of us now!" Now we can allow him/her to sing in the choir, teach Sunday School, be an usher, etc because we have witnesses to the fact that they spoke in tongues and we can all say of a certainty that they are one of us! They're in the exclusive club like we are! They are God's elite! I know how it goes. I watched it for years. Good, honest, God-loving, God-fearing folks denied involvement in the community of faith because no one could validate their salvation, i.e. no one could verify they spoke with tongues.

So then you get crazy activities like "tongues checkers" sticking up their thumbs to say "this one's got it" or someone blowing a whistle to let everyone know "this one is saved" and then we can get out our clipboards and ledgers and record and count and write down with tally marks how many "got it" so we can boast and brag what a move of God we had.

No I think God is perfectly fine being God, He knows His sheep and they know Him. Tongues was never given for the purpose of stroking our egos or to put us in the driver's seat.

No one can see the Spirit filling someone. It's spiritual. The evidence that someone is filled with the Spirit is the Fruit of the Spirit.

[good samaritan]

I believe it can be counterfeited, but I would have to know from God to call someone on it. I certainly have had my doubts about some before, but we should keep our assumptions to are self. Time will reveal things. I am not a police for the kingdom of God to arrest and condemn people. It is much better to lead them. Anointed Holy Ghost filled leaders should lead the flock in worship by teaching and example.

[votivesoul]

Brethren, the Greek word for "new wine" as seen in Acts 2:13, in the accusation made by those who mocked the disciples, is gleukos, hence our word "glucose", and it means UNFERMENTED grape juice, meaning incapable of causing drunkenness, that is to say, the sweet juice or must of a grape when it's first squeezed.

The only reason lexicons, commentators, or interpreters say otherwise is because they are guilty of eisogesis, assuming the accusation made against the disciples meant the people so accusing them thought they were under the influence of alcoholic wine (i.e acting as if drunk).

Let us rightly divide the Word of Truth, my friends.

The ministry is to be above reproach. The ministry is to not give offense in anything. God would not, and so, does not, inspire in His people an activity or response that would liken His people to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

To say that God causes people to act as if they are drunk on alcohol during their worship would be like saying God causes people to act as if they are fornicating during their worship.

1 Corinthians 5:11,

11 But I now have written unto you not to keep company with any man who is called a brother if he is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. With such a one you are not even to eat.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10,

9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10. nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21,

19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, quarreling, rivalry, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21. envying, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like. About these things I tell you again, as I have also told you in times past, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Friends, God isn't inspiring reactions to His presence that would cause anyone to think they were anything but sober (be sober-minded, anyone???). To do so would besmirch Himself and make the unlearned think His people were actually drunk on literal alcohol. Such an accusation would bring a shame to Him and to His people.

It is clear from the Greek that the accusation of being drunk on new, or un-fermented wine had nothing to do with being drunk on alcohol, as if they were in an upper tavern instead of an upper room.

The accusation was simply regarding hearing these backwater Galileans speak languages that they obviously had never learned. Ever hear someone speak a new language for the first time? Anyone who has or is studying a second language will tell you their first attempts at speaking come off sounding childish (become like little children to inherit the Kingdom of God, which is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit???).

And guess what? Children in the old world were given the super sweet, un-fermented wine!

The accusation against the disciples was not that they were falling over each other singing rowdy ballads, stumbling into each other and falling down stairs. It was that they sounded like little children trying to speak a second language. And guess what? The new or sweet wine that children were allowed to drink was massively full of sugar (hence our word glucose) and kids and sugar make for some pretty hyperactive people, who talk fast.

Then Peter gets up and tells them that the disciples are not drunk, as they had supposed, meaning, they weren't full of sugary-sweet new wine, acting like children trying to speak a second language; rather this was the promise of God the Father through the prophet Joel, that He would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Nowhere in the Joel prophecy does it state that God would cause anyone to act in a drunken manner. Therefore, in order for Acts 2:4 to be a fulfillment of Joel 2:28, acting as if drunken CANNOT be a part of the fulfillment of the prophecy.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Brethren, the Greek word for "new wine" as seen in Acts 2:13, in the accusation made by those who mocked the disciples, is gleukos, hence our word "glucose", and it means UNFERMENTED grape juice, meaning incapable of causing drunkenness, that is to say, the sweet juice or must of a grape when it's first squeezed.

The only reason lexicons, commentators, or interpreters say otherwise is because they are guilty of eisogesis, assuming the accusation made against the disciples meant the people so accusing them thought they were under the influence of alcoholic wine (i.e acting as if drunk).

Let us rightly divide the Word of Truth, my friends.

The ministry is to be above reproach. The ministry is to not give offense in anything. God would not, and so, does not, inspire in His people an activity or response that would liken His people to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

To say that God causes people to act as if they are drunk on alcohol during their worship would be like saying God causes people to act as if they are fornicating during their worship.

1 Corinthians 5:11,



1 Corinthians 6:9-10,



Galatians 5:19-21,



Friends, God isn't inspiring reactions to His presence that would cause anyone to think they were anything but sober (be sober-minded, anyone???). To do so would besmirch Himself and make the unlearned think His people were actually drunk on literal alcohol. Such an accusation would bring a shame to Him and to His people.

It is clear from the Greek that the accusation of being drunk on new, or un-fermented wine had nothing to do with being drunk on alcohol, as if they were in an upper tavern instead of an upper room.

The accusation was simply regarding hearing these backwater Galileans speak languages that they obviously had never learned. Ever hear someone speak a new language for the first time? Anyone who has or is studying a second language will tell you their first attempts at speaking come off sounding childish (become like little children to inherit the Kingdom of God, which is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit???).

And guess what? Children in the old world were given the super sweet, un-fermented wine!

The accusation against the disciples was not that they were falling over each other singing rowdy ballads, stumbling into each other and falling down stairs. It was that they sounded like little children trying to speak a second language. And guess what? The new or sweet wine that children were allowed to drink was massively full of sugar (hence our word glucose) and kids and sugar make for some pretty hyperactive people, who talk fast.

Then Peter gets up and tells them that the disciples are not drunk, as they had supposed, meaning, they weren't full of sugary-sweet new wine, acting like children trying to speak a second language; rather this was the promise of God the Father through the prophet Joel, that He would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Nowhere in the Joel prophecy does it state that God would cause anyone to act in a drunken manner. Therefore, in order for Acts 2:4 to be a fulfillment of Joel 2:28, acting as if drunken CANNOT be a part of the fulfillment of the prophecy.

I never could understand how God gets glory from His children acting like folks who are sinning.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Brethren, the Greek word for "new wine" as seen in Acts 2:13, in the accusation made by those who mocked the disciples, is gleukos, hence our word "glucose", and it means UNFERMENTED grape juice, meaning incapable of causing drunkenness, that is to say, the sweet juice or must of a grape when it's first squeezed.

The only reason lexicons, commentators, or interpreters say otherwise is because they are guilty of eisogesis, assuming the accusation made against the disciples meant the people so accusing them thought they were under the influence of alcoholic wine (i.e acting as if drunk).

Let us rightly divide the Word of Truth, my friends.

The ministry is to be above reproach. The ministry is to not give offense in anything. God would not, and so, does not, inspire in His people an activity or response that would liken His people to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

To say that God causes people to act as if they are drunk on alcohol during their worship would be like saying God causes people to act as if they are fornicating during their worship.

1 Corinthians 5:11,



1 Corinthians 6:9-10,



Galatians 5:19-21,



Friends, God isn't inspiring reactions to His presence that would cause anyone to think they were anything but sober (be sober-minded, anyone???). To do so would besmirch Himself and make the unlearned think His people were actually drunk on literal alcohol. Such an accusation would bring a shame to Him and to His people.

It is clear from the Greek that the accusation of being drunk on new, or un-fermented wine had nothing to do with being drunk on alcohol, as if they were in an upper tavern instead of an upper room.

The accusation was simply regarding hearing these backwater Galileans speak languages that they obviously had never learned. Ever hear someone speak a new language for the first time? Anyone who has or is studying a second language will tell you their first attempts at speaking come off sounding childish (become like little children to inherit the Kingdom of God, which is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit???).

And guess what? Children in the old world were given the super sweet, un-fermented wine!

The accusation against the disciples was not that they were falling over each other singing rowdy ballads, stumbling into each other and falling down stairs. It was that they sounded like little children trying to speak a second language. And guess what? The new or sweet wine that children were allowed to drink was massively full of sugar (hence our word glucose) and kids and sugar make for some pretty hyperactive people, who talk fast.

Then Peter gets up and tells them that the disciples are not drunk, as they had supposed, meaning, they weren't full of sugary-sweet new wine, acting like children trying to speak a second language; rather this was the promise of God the Father through the prophet Joel, that He would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Nowhere in the Joel prophecy does it state that God would cause anyone to act in a drunken manner. Therefore, in order for Acts 2:4 to be a fulfillment of Joel 2:28, acting as if drunken CANNOT be a part of the fulfillment of the prophecy.

I agree.