Submission? Or Power and Control?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The head covering (or veil) that Paul was talking about in I Corinthians 11 was a first century standard of modesty for women.

Any time a woman covers herself in modesty, she reveals that she is submitted to authority and honors her head (meaning her husband).

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

An immodest and shameful woman is clearly not in submission. And she dishonors her head (meaning husband). Appearing immodest in public, or in worship gatherings, is just as shameful to her husband as it would be if she were publically put to shame like a prostitute (which involved the shaving or sheering of the hair).

1 Corinthians 11:5 (KJV)
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

The entire issue isn't about holy magic hair, uncut hair, or having authority over angels or spirits. It's about submission, modesty, and honoring one's husband by wearing modest attire.

I believe that the first part of I Corinthians 11 addresses the order of authority: "for this cause", having to look above verse 10 to see what the "cause" was - God - man - woman. That would correlate with Genesis 1:27, and this would be the authority and submission - not forgetting that the NT teaches both how to submit "one to another" in Ephesians 5:21. More could be said on the role of each sex, but I think we already know these things. We are equal in some things, but not all.

I believe the second part of I Corinthians 11 addresses a separation of the sexes on how they look. He wouldn't have addressed the length of a man or woman's hair if that was not the case - I Corinthians 11:14-15.

So, I agree that I Corinthians is not about Holy Magic Hair, nor do I believe a woman cannot keep her hair looking nice. The passage certainly is about submission and modesty which addresses both sexes.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by ILG

So a woman cutting her hair brings on hellfire and damnation as if she killed someone? Preposterous! Especially when the Bible never says a woman should not cut her hair! But it does say Thou shalt not kill!

Did I say that? No, I didn't. Never mind.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Esaias -

some teach that "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels," refers to angels that were in rebellion to God's order.

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

and women are covered to show submission to authority, what are your thoughts?

No heavenly beings rebelled against God, that's a Jewish myth.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=49089

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Exod 25:17-22 "You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat.

Yes, the FACES face each other. The mercy seat is a throne (Hebrews 4:16). He entered the veil and thus into heaven and sat down. The wings are over the seat. Cherubic thrones were well known throughout the ancient near east.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I believe that the first part of I Corinthians 11 addresses the order of authority: "for this cause", having to look above verse 10 to see what the "cause" was - God - man - woman. That would correlate with Genesis 1:27, and this would be the authority and submission - not forgetting that the NT teaches both how to submit "one to another" in Ephesians 5:21. More could be said on the role of each sex, but I think we already know these things. We are equal in some things, but not all.

I believe the second part of I Corinthians 11 addresses a separation of the sexes on how they look. He wouldn't have addressed the length of a man or woman's hair if that was not the case - I Corinthians 11:14-15.

So, I agree that I Corinthians is not about Holy Magic Hair, nor do I believe a woman cannot keep her hair looking nice. The passage certainly is about submission and modesty which addresses both sexes.

If you see I Corinthians 11:14-15 as being supplemental to Paul's entire polemic, you'll realize that it is a solid teaching on modesty, focused on the first century head covering. Think about it. Paul makes the argument for a head covering for several verses and then writes,

1 Corinthians 11:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

In other words, Paul is saying, "Doesn't even nature agree with what I'm telling you about women wearing head coverings? Because women are naturally beautiful with long hair. Therefore, her hair is given to her for a head covering."

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by Esaias

No heavenly beings rebelled against God, that's a Jewish myth.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=49089

I know I'm late to the party, but... honest question here, what about Lucifer and his band of heavenly misfits?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

I know I'm late to the party, but... honest question here, what about Lucifer and his band of heavenly misfits?

Lucifer is a Latin translation of hallel (sp?) which is a title applied to the king of Babylon in Isaih 14. It is not a proper name (except a Latin term for the planet Venus).

There was no angel named Lucifer who was heaven's choir director, who tried to stage a coup against God, etc.

The thread I linked to goes in depth into the subject.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Did I say that? No, I didn't. Never mind.

But do you believe that?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yes, the FACES face each other. The mercy seat is a throne (Hebrews 4:16). He entered the veil and thus into heaven and sat down. The wings are over the seat. Cherubic thrones were well known throughout the ancient near east.

BDB defines "cover" in Exodus 25:20 -verb overshadow, screen, cover - 1 screen, cover, usually co. עַלֿ of thing covered בְּ of covering Exodus 25:20

I will have to think about your view.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yes, the FACES face each other. The mercy seat is a throne (Hebrews 4:16). He entered the veil and thus into heaven and sat down. The wings are over the seat. Cherubic thrones were well known throughout the ancient near east.

But what does this have to do with hair?