Daniel's 70th week

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What?

Why ask why? You are the one who is superstitious. You have built this mythology around one Hebrew word. Mike, here is what we ask Jehovah Witnesses. A Sacred Name group who had to come up with their own translation which they peppered with the guess name Jehovah. We ask them why? Why go and insert Jehovah everywhere in the OT and NT where it was never originally? Jesus is YAH? Really? Jesus is who he shall become? Yet, He is NEVER called YAH anywhere in the New Testament. No where does Jesus call Himself YAH. Nowhere does any apostle call Jesus YAH. If this Hebrew word was so important, so important that it can cause someone to lose their soul by misusing it. Then why aren't we WARNED about it? Told to be CAREFUL not to MISUSE it? You see you won't get honest, and answer me.

You just quote from a English translation, and post from concordances.

Come on Mike, where is the proof from Jesus and the apostles themselves? Where is Paul acting and speaking like you? Where? Do we need to find a Hebrew Roots translation of the New Testament where they have Jesus and the apostles Yahing it up? Where they never did before? Mike, that Hebrew word isn't important to Jesus, or the apostles. Neither should it be to us, who speak English.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In thousands of posts here I have not even ONCE tried to push anyone to use "YAH". Dom cant produce even one quote where I have. I myself use it with pleasure.

Show me the one post in this thread where I accuse you about pushing anyone to use Hebrew? You can't because that isn't what I've been talking about. I'm talking about you telling me I could be a blasphemer because of me just saying it is a Hebrew word, a verb. Not some special word which we must be careful not to abuse it. That is your's and the Sacred Name group's hokkuspokkus. All because of some strange Hebrew envy.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Whenever Dom sees it he attacks it. Several times, without telling him HE must use this sacred name I have cautioned him about it because I am concerned for his soul.

Here we go again. OK, look boys and girls. Let's put on thinking caps on. Here is an individual who says that he doesn't push anyone to use the Hebrew word. But believes that one can lose their soul because of misusing that Hebrew word? So, that Hebrew word must eb super important? Right?

Therefore why shouldn't we all use it and honor it? Correct? Then, we need Mike to PROVE that it was that important.

But NOWHERE and I do mean NOWHERE, in the New Testament are we told about this Hebrew word's importance.

Mike, won't even attempt to make the case, because, he has no where documented where Jesus uses this Hebrew verb. Where Jesus teaches on the importance of the use of the Hebrew language. The importance of the Greek language, the Latin language, or the Aramaic language. The whole love affair with the Hebrew stems from the Talmudic Rabbis. Not that Mike had a Rabbi throw some Hebrew mojo on him, but it was the Dispensational movement (Daniel 70 weeks) which places the modern Jew (With their Modern Hebrew) in the forefront of their religion. A Hebrew envy develops and sooner or later, MeeMaw starts butchering the Hebrew language with her thick Cajun accent.

Will everyone who is Dispensationalist Pre or Post trib do this? NO. Do some go all the way to "I wish I was a Jew" syndrome? Sadly yes. Some to the point where they listen to a Rabbi Tovia Singer and REALLY LOSE THEIR SOULS. Not because they misuttered a Hebrew word YH, YHVH, HYH. No, renouncing Christ, because they were now convinced by a Rabbi that Jesus or Yeshua wasn't the TRUE MESSIAH.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It is HE who cannot tolerate this name and who will fight about it at the drop of a hat.

Mike, you speak English. You hadn't even taken the time to learn Hebrew since 1974? My lands, since 1974 you would be able to have a rolling conversation on the streets of Neve Tzedek. But you don't, and so you warn me about YAH? His name is Jesus, who is the Father, who is God of gods, LORD of lords, King of kings. Ruler and creator of the universe. The Rabbis don't believe that, but if you won't call on Hashem "the name" then they will suffice with YAH. Good job Mike. Mike, why aren't you pronouncing λούια?

Since you posted Revelation's Αλληλούια why don't you tell us how to pronounce λούια? Since you have warned me to be careful, should we also be careful about this Greek word? Does λούια sound like YAH? Mike does it?
Warning people not to blaspheme a Hebrew word, what about a Greek or English word? So, again, how do you pronounce λούια? We know it doesn't look the same as YAH. What does it sound like? You see Mike, Yahwists have a problem with the Greek, Αλληλούια, and as you know Jesus. But with Αλληλούια. The problem is how it is pronounced. Which isn't an issue if you understand, but since Yahwists are phonic intolerable, they want to throw it out. So, Mike what is λούια?

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You are making a commandment here that Christ never made.

Mike, that is what I am asking you to do in post after post. I am asking you to show me where Jesus or the apostles ever warned anyone about YAH? You see Mike, YOU are the one who claim if I misuse this Hebrew vowel, I can lose my soul. So, while you crawfish all over this thread, you are the one putting commandments in Jesus' mouth. No you don't push anyone to use the verb, but you just warn me over and over to not tamper with the verb. Noting in the New Testament in the form of a prohibition, commandment, treaty, or admonishment concerning the Hebrew language. Or any language.
Hence the reason why the Bible was translated into English and Spanish.
Religious orders were the ones who fought against translation. It doesn't seem to have been an issue during the ancient times. Yet, the Greek Orthodox Byzantines frowned on the Greek being translated into Latin. The Roman Catholics frowned on the Latin being translated into the common language of English, German, and Spanish. They believed the Greek, and Latin to be holy. Language is a means to relate a message, all languages can do this. We are not cursed if we use, or not use a language. Because Jesus and the apostles NEVER made it an issue.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In your mind it's wrong for me as an American to call Jesus by his Hebrew name.

No, not wrong. Extremely odd, that we would do that, since we have no precedent to do so. Look, in 1974 when you walked into a church did you hear them use yeshua or Jesus?

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So by logic do you feel it's wrong for a Jew to call Yeshua "Jesus"?

Oh, you don't read posts before you answer them? That's why I like you so much.

Sad, man. Real sad.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I came up in an International Church. There were Americans, Indians, British, Chinese, Japanese, French, Jews, ect. People would worship Christ interchanging names. It was not considered sinful.

Mike, you didn't read my post. So, now you are building a strawman. Mike, you are the one saying it is sinful to misuse a Hebrew word. Not me, I'm saying the exact opposite. Where did Jesus or the apostles warn anyone concerning the Hebrew? Concerning the Hebrew words YAH, YHVH, HYH?
Where did the apostles or Jesus give warnings like you have posted to me? SINFUL!?!? Mike, you are turning this on to me? Maybe Hebrew is your birth language? Because you sure can't read English.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Do I use YAH at times to feel more Hebrew? Not that I am aware of.

Hence the reason I'm pointing it out to you.

What do you feel about the Jewish people in general? How does God view them?

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Why do you and others go to the Greek or even the Hebrew to prove points you are making?

If the Bible was written in ancient Manderien we study that language, would go to dictionaries, and lexicons.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Does it make you feel more Greek or Hebrew?

Either you are so mad that we can roast and melt steel on your head. Or you haven't read a word I posted. Mike, forget ancient languages, you need to read and understand English first. Because we speak English do we feel more English? My wife and daughter reads the Bible Old and New entirely in Greek. The church family read in Greek, Spanish, English, French. Does it make them feel more ethnic? NO!!!!

Because it is their birth languages. Boudreaux & Thibodeaux start speaking French and English? That would be normal. If they started speaking French and English throwing in some Hebrew here and there, then we start looking at them oddly. Listen, I don't need someone who has never learned Hebrew, lived in Israel, to tell me shalom. Bye and hello works just fine. Mike, you do it because you think that is His name, and to sound more Hebrew. You called Him God and Jesus ever since you set a foot in the church. You then went of on a Hebrew carpet ride and became Rabbi Micheal Gibson.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Why do you do it? Why is it ok to try to prove the most minor points by going to the Greek or Hebrew but YET forbid even a positive MENTION of the name God has used in both Testaments?

Mike, you make no sense. We use Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin to give definitions. I don't walk around calling Jesus Ἰησοῦς,, or saying He is θεός.


That's YOU.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Blaspheme this name at your own risk.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I never accused you of blasphemy. I was trying to warn you NOT to. Please be careful.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have CAUTIONED him about it BECAUSE I am concerned for his SOUL.

Mike, doesn't push anyone to use YAH?

But Mike, will sure send you to H. E. double toothpicks if you don't respect his view on the Hebrew word YAH.

Good God from Zion!!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

There are many more but you get the point.

Actually no, because you still miss the point.

There is no importance whatsoever to use the Hebrew word if you don't speak Hebrew. If you don't speak Greek walking around calling Jesus, θεός, or calling Jesus, Jesús if you aren't Spanish. If I called Jesus, Giesu, would you think I was Vietnamese? If I spoke all English, but just used Giesu? People would ask if I had a Vietnamese background, upbringing, ancestry? Normal, logical? But what is your excuse? I can only assume because you wouldn't get honest here. But most likely believe that the New Testament isn't giving us a record in Jesus' language. That everyone was calling Him Yeshua, and He received a name change by Greek Christian scribes. Yet, the 2,000 year old record calls Him Ἰησοῦς? The LXX book of Joshua is titled Ἰησοῦς? 500 years before His birth. But you all would get a Hebrew knee jerk, if it was pointed out that He was called by His mother "Ἰησοῦς."

It is the phenomenon which has been brought about through the new idea (16th to 20th century) that the Rabbis had some deep insight on what WE believe.

Subtly, they got you to believe that the New Testament we hold in our hands, tells a misinterpreted Greek story, about a Hebrew only world.

[diakonos]

Jah, mon. Da only group I know dats Jah-ing it up is dee Rastsfarians, mon.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Jah, mon. Da only group I know dats Jah-ing it up is dee Rastsfarians, mon.

JAH Rasta FAR I

HALLY SALASSIE I !!!!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If the 70th week was fulfilled in the 1st century would it abolish a future end time scenario?

That's not the question to ask. Whether it DOES or it DOESN'T abolish a future endtime scenario is no reason to discredit the fact that the 70th week was fulfilled 2000 years ago. First we determine what Daniel taught about the 70th week's placement, and then proceed from that point to determine what that says about the endtime scenario.

We know that Daniel was told about THE TIME of the end in chapter 12, and how the visions he saw were SEALED TIL THE TIME OF THE END, (not THE END OF TIME, by the way).

And John was told the visions he saw, similar to Daniel's, were NOT SEALED because THE TIME was at hand. What TIME? TIME OF THE END.

John was in the time of the end, but Daniel was not.

End of what? Not the end of time. The time of the end of something,

Jesus was asked about the TIME when certain THINGS would come to pass. He mentioned the END in His response. And the TIME of THE THINGS coming to pass referred to the time when the stones of the temple would be thrown down one by one. He was asked about the SIGN of his coming. That coming was not a separate event compare to the temple destruction, but would rather CAUSE the temple destruction. We know this because a comparison of Mark's account of this conversation and Luke's account show the SIGN OF THY COMING to be on and the same SIGN WHEN THESE THINGS SHALL COME TO PASS. And THESE THINGS COME TO PASS refer to the temple destruction.

Everyone is familiar with the SYNOPTIC GOSPELS... Matthew, Mark and Luke. They carry for the the same stories, for the most part, during Jesus' time on earth, and simply rephrase the stories from how they personally knew about it and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 all relate the same conversation Jesus had with the disciples about the coming of the Lord.

Notice Matthew 24 says the "SIGN" the disciples asked about is the "coming" of the Lord and the end of the "age", whereas both Mark and Luke say the "SIGN" in the same conversation was of the destruction of the temple.

Mat 24:2-3 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Luke 21:6-7 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (7) And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Mark 13:2-4 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, (4) Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

It’s the same conversation! Matthew records the same thought as Mark and Luke did, using different words. The manner in which we understand what the sign of the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24:3 is, is by realizing that same sign is noted in Luke as the sign when "these things" shall come to pass. What things? The stones of the temple being overthrown!

Allow the bible to interpret itself, and do not start at a point of belief before we read scripture that speaks of the time the 70 weeks are determined.

Jesus mentioned the END as if he were speaking about the time of His coming in Matthew 24. And that coming was NOT the second coming.

[mfblume]

I am going t put this in ESCHATOLOGY section as well.

But it fits here.

People claim the coming of Matthew 24 is the second coming, which has not yet happened. So, they claim Matthew 24 has not yet been fulfilled.

There is a HUGE aspect that is overlooked when people make this claim.

The disciples did not believe nor even understand anything about his death and resurrection before He died, which includes the time they asked him about his coming in Matth 24!

How could they ask him about HIS SECOND COMING that refers to a time after he would die and resurrect, and ascend into glory, if they did not even believe in His death and resurrection to begin with in the time before He actually died?

Jesus often spoke of his future death and resurrection, but the disciples never understood nor accepted it. They did not accept it because they did not understand it, nor expect it.

John 16:5-25.. But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? ..(6).. But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. ..(7).. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. ..(8).. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: ..(9).. Of sin, because they believe not on me; ..(10).. Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; ..(11).. Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. ..(12).. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. ..(13).. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. ..(14).. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. ..(15).. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. ..(16).. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. ..(17).. Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father? ..(18).. They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith. ..(19).. Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? ..(20).. Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. ..(21).. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. ..(22).. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. ..(23).. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. ..(24).. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. ..(25).. These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

There is therefore NO WAY they understood his coming in Matt 24 to be about a coming after He died and returned.

And even the day He resurrected, Mary stood there looking at him and thought he was the gardener and asked where he laid the body of Jesus.

The disciples were hiding out the day he resurrected, not expecting to see him whatsoever.

To speak of a second coming, one has to understand he would die, resurrect and come again.

The ONLY coming He spoke about that they understood was coming in destruction against Jerusalem, as we read here:

Mat 10:14.. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet...
Mat 10:15.. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city...
Persecution Will Come
Mat 10:16.. Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves...
Mat 10:17.. But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;..
Mat 10:18.. And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles...
Mat 10:19.. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak...
Mat 10:20.. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you...
Mat 10:21.. And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death...
Mat 10:22.. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved...
Mat 10:23.. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come...

Mat 16:28.. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom...

Mat 21:38.. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance...
Mat 21:39.. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him...
Mat 21:40.. When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?..
Mat 21:41.. They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons...
....Mat 21:45.. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

He spoke of dying in Jerusalem and rising the third day in Matt 16, and Peter never even heard him say rise again, but scolded him to put away the thought of dying in Jerusalem.

[Michael The Disciple]

Thank you Michael. So where does this show us WHEN week 70 was fulfilled?

70ad?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thank you Michael. So where does this show us WHEN week 70 was fulfilled?

70ad?

You're welcome. No, the 70th week ended 3.5 years after the cross when Gentiles came into the Church.

[Esaias]

The ONLY coming He spoke about that they understood was coming in destruction against Jerusalem,

They asked, in Matthew 24, about "when these things will be", "the end of the world", and "the sign of Thy coming". They did not, at that time, understand His dying and raising, but that doesn't preclude them from asking about His coming. Whatever concepts they may have had about His coming (whether it was strictly a judgment upon Jerusalem, or His coming into His kingdom/reign, or His coming to resurrect and judge all men, or any other thing they may have thought of, whether correctly or erroneously), would not mean they couldn't ask about any of them. It just means they wouldn't have been thinking in terms of Jesus coming after dying and raising.

It is also interesting they didn't ask "when are you coming", but "what will be the sign of your coming". Which could mean the sign presaged the coming, signaled the coming was taking place, or indicated the coming had taken place. In other words, the sign could occur before, during, or after the parousia (depends on how one understands both the question, and the answer).