Pastoral Authority Part 898,230 - Page 9

Nitehawk013 · #81 09-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Pastoral authority is a subject that intrigues me. Do pastors really have the right, as many think they do, to "set rules" for "their" congregation? And then cause people to be lost for "rebellion"? I honestly would love to know how God views these things.

The only scripture to support the Pastor "setting the line" I ever hear used is MOses setting the line around the Mt in Exodus.

The problem with that is that Moses is not a Pastor. Moses, if anything, was a Christ type. Not a NT Pastor. IN fact I have a paper at home that shows all the direct parallels between Moses and CHrist.

I have even asked my Bishop directly about ht eissue of "Pastoral Convictions" and he told me very honestly that they really aren't scriptural. It is more of a tradition. So can a person be labeled rebellious for not following traditions? I'd say no, but then...I'm not a Pastor.

*AQuietPlace* · #82 09-22-2009, 12:29 PM

The main scripture used is "obey those that have the rule over you."

Nitehawk013 · #83 09-22-2009, 12:31 PM

Yes, but that one has been thoroughly shot to pieces within the APO ranks. Pietho doea mean obey. But it means obey as though persuaded. Not as though the Pastor is your ruler and throws commands at you. He has a responsibiltiy to persuade you. Not demand adherance from you.

*AQuietPlace* · #84 09-22-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Yes, but that one has been thoroughly shot to pieces within the APO ranks. Pietho doea mean obey. But it means obey as though persuaded. Not as though the Pastor is your ruler and throws commands at you. He has a responsibiltiy to persuade you. Not demand adherance from you.

I don't think it has been shot to pieces. I'd say the majority still believe it.

Nitehawk013 · #85 09-22-2009, 12:57 PM

Perhaps. I could be wrong. All the people I read and hear from have all come to understand that Pietho doesn't mean what the traditionalists thinkit means.

Jeffrey · #86 09-22-2009, 01:06 PM

Paul charged his disciples to follow Him, as he followed Christ. Discipleship doesn't simply pass out rules, it leads and guides. NT leadership at its core.

pastorrush · #87 10-04-2009, 04:04 AM

Bro. Scott gives the best advice the rest Ifee at best.

pastorrush · #88 10-04-2009, 04:05 AM

Jeffrey · #89 12-16-2009, 05:03 PM

EPh 4:11 is a critical scripture that changes what people believe about clergy and laity.

Some don't believe these distinctions existed in scripture. They interpret Eph 4:11-12 through the modern usage, by putting a comma after "saints" in v11. What this does is make the verse say that the "work of ministry" is for the saints to do. Many problems with that exist, as well as challenges. One of those considers punctuation of similarly structured sentences by Paul. Another considers these verses:

1 Tim 5:17 "those that labor in preaching and teaching..."

1 Thes 5:12 "those who labor among you..."

It definitely is something of evidence that suggest the "work of ministry" was done by a distinguished cast of people, and not "all Christians." However, one can certainly argue that the work of evangelizing, for example, should be done by all Christians, as that's the purpose of the Spirit infilling. But that's not an opposing argument to the clergy/laity dilemma. Thoughts?

Godsdrummer · #90 12-17-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

EPh 4:11 is a critical scripture that changes what people believe about clergy and laity.

Some don't believe these distinctions existed in scripture. They interpret Eph 4:11-12 through the modern usage, by putting a comma after "saints" in v11. What this does is make the verse say that the "work of ministry" is for the saints to do. Many problems with that exist, as well as challenges. One of those considers punctuation of similarly structured sentences by Paul. Another considers these verses:

1 Tim 5:17 "those that labor in preaching and teaching..."

1 Thes 5:12 "those who labor among you..."

It definitely is something of evidence that suggest the "work of ministry" was done by a distinguished cast of people, and not "all Christians." However, one can certainly argue that the work of evangelizing, for example, should be done by all Christians, as that's the purpose of the Spirit infilling. But that's not an opposing argument to the clergy/laity dilemma. Thoughts?

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

I think we fail to couple this passage with Ep.4 Yes there are those that God raises up that seem to hold a higher position take Paul. But even Paul said follow me... and in this passage Paul includes the ministry in the same place as gifts of the spirit that any can reach. Kind of precludes the idea of the ministry being held higher in position.