Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist - Page 9

watchman · #81 07-30-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are not oneness if you believe Jesus is not God manifested in, not become, flesh. You may be MONOTHEIST, but not oneness. Bro Bernard is correct. Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man. But God is not a man. THE PERSON of God is the PERSON of the man Jesus.

Exactly!!!!!

pastorrick1959 · #82 07-30-2010, 02:16 PM

[QUOTE=watchman;=pastorrick1959;
God is one and has always been one. Jesus is the man God became. Jesus did not exist before incarnation as God the Son. In His pre-incarnate state, He existed as the Father, God Himself. Now the two of them are in heaven together, God the Father and the man he became, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The problem is that when I say the Father became a man people think it means I believe he stopped being an eternal Spirit after incarnation and that heaven was empty. This is not what I believe. God the Father continued to exist as a transcendent, unlimited Spirit, while also becoming a man. The Father did not become confined to a human existence. It is not as though the omnipresent Spirit of God transformed Himself into a man, to the exclusion of His existence as the Holy Spirit.

When God assumed a human existence with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of His humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and separate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yahweh, the Father, the Great I Am.

Only the man that was born, and lived as a man died. The Father did not die for He cannot die.[/QUOTE]

SO IF i understand this correct --god became man ,but was still spirit also so we have a spirit god and a flesh god ? did god quit being man right before he died? or are you saying - god dwelt in the son ,revealed himself to people thru the son and by his actions and works he did showed the nature of god ..??saying that god was manifested IN THE FLESH , not became flesh.?? what would be correct in your opinioan>?

pastorrick1959 · #83 07-30-2010, 02:24 PM

[QUOTE=mfblume;945652]You are not oneness if you believe Jesus is not God manifested in, not become, flesh. You may be MONOTHEIST, but not oneness. Bro Bernard is correct. Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man. But God is not a man. THE PERSON of God is the PERSON of the man Jesus

well i agree with part.. your not onenness if you dont belive god was manifest IN the son.. BECAUSE IF YOU BELIVED HE WAS GOD made flesh that would be 2 gods.

person of god =1
person of son =1
total =======2

that should be sinmple enough for anyone.

how can god be 100% man --when the bible says - god is not a man in number 23;19 ,,and st john 1;18 said no man has seen god at any time .?? just dont add up sir sorry i will stay with the bible .

watchman · #84 07-30-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

SO IF i understand this correct --god became man ,but was still spirit also so we have a spirit god and a flesh god ? did god quit being man right before he died? or are you saying - god dwelt in the son ,revealed himself to people thru the son and by his actions and works he did showed the nature of god ..??saying that god was manifested IN THE FLESH , not became flesh.?? what would be correct in your opinioan>?

God did indeed become flesh, but He also remain God separate from the man He became, and while Jesus was God incarnate he was also fully human and therefore distinct from the Father. God was not born the man Jesus Christ was, and God did not die the man Jesus Christ did.

pastorrick1959 · #85 07-31-2010, 09:16 AM

[QUOTE=watchman;945875]God did indeed become flesh, but He also remain God separate from the man He became, and while Jesus was God incarnate he was also fully human and therefore distinct from the Father. God was not born the man Jesus Christ was, and God did not die the man Jesus Christ did

if god became flesh ,,then the bible is a lie.
numbers 23;19 -god is not a man .. read its its there.

st. john 1;18- no man hath seen god at any time ,,,,
1 john says the same thing .

if god became flesh and god was still spirit too , your not oneness

your divine duo doctrine!

SRM · #86 07-31-2010, 01:43 PM

[QUOTE=pastorrick1959;945921]

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchman

God did indeed become flesh, but He also remain God separate from the man He became, and while Jesus was God incarnate he was also fully human and therefore distinct from the Father. God was not born the man Jesus Christ was, and God did not die the man Jesus Christ did

if god became flesh ,,then the bible is a lie.
numbers 23;19 -god is not a man .. read its its there.

st. john 1;18- no man hath seen god at any time ,,,,
1 john says the same thing .

if god became flesh and god was still spirit too , your not oneness

your divine duo doctrine!

Jn 4:24..God is Spirit..to take away or add it not good..to say He became something else is also not good..

Why cannot we allow God to be God?..stop saying He put on a suit of flesh..NO HE DID NOT....He begot a man from the womb of Mary who FROM the loins of David,annointed him {acts 10:38}and gave him the Spirit without measure{Jn 3:34} and did the works{Jn 14:10} and spoke through this man{Heb 1:2} we call Jesus..Jesus never once said He was God or the Father..man has made him to be..

rawooddell · #87 07-31-2010, 05:39 PM

[QUOTE=pastorrick1959;945762]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are not oneness if you believe Jesus is not God manifested in, not become, flesh. You may be MONOTHEIST, but not oneness. Bro Bernard is correct. Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man. But God is not a man. THE PERSON of God is the PERSON of the man Jesus

well i agree with part.. your not onenness if you dont belive god was manifest IN the son.. BECAUSE IF YOU BELIVED HE WAS GOD made flesh that would be 2 gods.

person of god =1
person of son =1
total =======2

that should be sinmple enough for anyone.

how can god be 100% man --when the bible says - god is not a man in number 23;19 ,,and st john 1;18 said no man has seen god at any time .?? just dont add up sir sorry i will stay with the bible .

Saying that God cannot be a man and still be God at the same time in two existances or perviews is like saying that God cannot be Omnipresent and in a single place at the same time. This is simply not true. God has the ability to be both the continual existance as the Father and also assume a human existance to be the Lamb of God. He is both without there being two Gods. Or else you are dividing the substance.

Second point, Numbers 23:19 was written at a time when God was not a man. That was future. Not to mention I believe that scripture states that God is not a man that He should lie. The Lord was saying that man in his unregenerated sinful state is by nature a liar. While God in his eternity, justice, righteousness, and holiness is a faithful witness. You would be using this scripture out of context if you used it to defend your position. In my opinion.

pastorrick1959 · #88 07-31-2010, 08:37 PM

[QUOTE=rawooddell;945995]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

Saying that God cannot be a man and still be God at the same time in two existances or perviews is like saying that God cannot be Omnipresent and in a single place at the same time. This is simply not true. God has the ability to be both the continual existance as the Father and also assume a human existance to be the Lamb of God. He is both without there being two Gods. Or else you are dividing the substance. ONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER.. yes god is a spirit and can be all places at once ,with no limits to him. to say and god is and flesh at same time makes no sense for this comparison.

Second point, Numbers 23:19 was written at a time when God was not a man. That was future. Not to mention I believe that scripture states that God is not a man that He should lie. The Lord was saying that man in his unregenerated sinful state is by nature a liar. While God in his eternity, justice, righteousness, and holiness is a faithful witness. You would be using this scripture out of context if you used it to defend your position. In my opinion.

ok if you want to take that stance ,,you still didnt adress st/john 1;18- 1 john 4;12 both says no man hath seen god at any time ,, and this is during and after the time of JESUS . col. does say JESUS was the image of the INVISIBLE GOD. cant you see god is a spirit as stated in john 4 ;24 but JESUS THE SON OF GOD revealed him to people ,, his image wasnt flesh it was works and nature..

rawooddell · #89 07-31-2010, 09:59 PM

[QUOTE=pastorrick1959;946039]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawooddell

ok if you want to take that stance ,,you still didnt adress st/john 1;18- 1 john 4;12 both says no man hath seen god at any time ,, and this is during and after the time of JESUS . col. does say JESUS was the image of the INVISIBLE GOD. cant you see god is a spirit as stated in john 4 ;24 but JESUS THE SON OF GOD revealed him to people ,, his image wasnt flesh it was works and nature..

You are correct that no man has ever seen God our Father at anytime. He continues to be Spirit. That same one only God also assumed a human nature to Himself, thereby creating an existance as a man. By vitrue of this being the same God, and by virtue of the fact that there are not persons in the Godhead, then our God was both Father and Son respectively.

The problem is not that Jesus is God my friend, the problem is that IF he is not God, then who is he? And further if he is god but not God then we should not serve him, neither as Messiah or King or any other type of worship as the Word of God clearly teaches that we are to have no other Gods before us. If Jesus is not God, and I believe that He is, then he is a false prophet and Messiah and should be rejected as such. If Jesus is not the same God who also is the Father in another manifestation then we much by conscience demands reject him as false, and his death as not worthy to obtain salvation for our sins, and we are yet in our sins and have no hope. For just a good man cannot have done for us what the blood of Jesus did. The promise was give to none other than Jesus himself, and the glory was given to none other than Jesus, and God states in his Word that He will give his glory to no other.

My point, Brother, was that the scripture you were quoting is not contextually quoted with this discussion. And if you are going to allow this text to be used in relation to eternity past, present, and future, then you are going to stand in contrast to Jesus himself.

Here's the story:

Jesus told a man that his sins were forgiven, to stand up, pick up his bed, and go his way home. Jesus' enemies stated that Jesus was in violation of Gods Word in that no one can forgive sins but God alone. Jesus simply told the man he was healed to get up and take his bed home. He did so, and the stated the reason that he do so was to prove that He, the son of man, had the power to forgive sins.

You state that Jesus never claimed to be God, but you surely have not read this story. Jesus did not claim to be God, but rather proved it to be so.

pastorrick1959 · #90 08-01-2010, 06:14 AM

[QUOTE=rawooddell;946085][QUOTE=pastorrick1959;946039]

You are correct that no man has ever seen God our Father at anytime. He continues to be Spirit. That same one only God also assumed a human nature to Himself, thereby creating an existance as a man. By vitrue of this being the same God, and by virtue of the fact that there are not persons in the Godhead, then our God was both Father and Son respectively.IF THE fahter is god and we both believe that and then turned into the son if only part of him did and the son was god ,, he was seen ,,

The problem is not that Jesus is God my friend, the problem is that IF he is not God, then who is he? And further if he is god but not God then we should not serve him, neither as Messiah or King or any other type of worship as the Word of God clearly teaches that we are to have no other Gods before us. If Jesus is not God, and I believe that He is, then he is a false prophet and Messiah and should be rejected as such. If Jesus is not the same God who also is the Father in another manifestation then we much by conscience demands reject him as false, and his death as not worthy to obtain salvation for our sins, and we are yet in our sins and have no hope. For just a good man cannot have done for us what the blood of Jesus did. The promise was give to none other than Jesus himself, and the glory was given to none other than Jesus, and God states in his Word that He will give his glory to no other. WHO IS HE ,, the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth ,, trhe lamb without spot ,, the perfect sacrifice ,, my big brother ,, the pattern son,, WE ARE HEIRS of god ,, joint heirs with JESUS CHRIST. there is a difference,. however i do believe that gods name is JESUS

My point, Brother, was that the scripture you were quoting is not contextually quoted with this discussion. And if you are going to allow this text to be used in relation to eternity past, present, and future, then you are going to stand in contrast to Jesus himself.

Here's the story:

Jesus told a man that his sins were forgiven, to stand up, pick up his bed, and go his way home. Jesus' enemies stated that Jesus was in violation of Gods Word in that no one can forgive sins but God alone. Jesus simply told the man he was healed to get up and take his bed home. He did so, and the stated the reason that he do so was to prove that He, the son of man, had the power to forgive sins.he always did the works of god ,, i have prayed for many getting miracles and casting out devils ,, i am not god , but one with god ,,

You state that Jesus never claimed to be God, but you surely have not read this story. Jesus did not claim to be God, but rather proved it to be so

dear sir i have been preaching since 1981 have 10 yrs of pastorship under my belt ,have traveled all over evangelising ,, there aint a scripture i have misssed ..JESU THE SON OF GOD IS the mediator between god and man ,, hopefully you have not missed that one..