Wearing a Suit and a Tie

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam

I've taught midweek Bible Study at our church while wearing a tee shirt, shorts, and sandals. I also dress like that while attending Sunday morning service.

Tonight I taught midweek Bible Study wearing jeans, an Ohio State tee shirt, and gym shoes. I did wear socks also. Like I said, it is an informal church. Our Pastor does not wear shorts on Sunday mornings but does during the week. He does not wear a tie. Shorts, tee shirts, flip flops, jeans, are OK for the folks on the platform.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Well, this begs the question - how did you come up with the $10 limit for a tie?

LOL, not sure why it BEGS the question... again, this has nothing to do with any extra Biblical teaching or anything like that. I'm a very frugal man, and live on a budget. I try to be a very good steward of my finances, and use widsom when make purchases. Since I live alone (if I aint making the money, nobody is), own a home, own a car, trying to put up for retirement, etc... have projects at the house that need to be done, and all the other bills any household has.... I have found that at $10, I can find ties that are nice enough to not be embarrassing, and also not feel guilty over how much I paid for it.

I also try to live as frugal working my secular job, as I did when I was full time ministry, and the members of the church paid my salary. Yes I earned it, but also people needed to feel confident they were investing in someone who wasn't wasting that hard earned money they were putting back into ministry. I felt an extra sense of duty to be an even better steward of my finances, so that folks that were contributing knew how much I appreciated the honor to be in full time ministry and not have to work a secular job. They needed to know I didn't see it as a free hand out, but that I worked hard, put in a ton of hours serving their families, community and the Lord, and that the honor of being able to do it full time gave me a sense of duty to not squander their funds they contributed.

I try to keep that same sense of stewardship today with my secular paycheck, for two reasons. 1, it's just smart financial management, but also, good practice should I ever be able to go back into full time ministry.

SIDEBAR: Hopefully to not take this thread more off topic than it is already.... I've never agreed with paying tithes all to the pastor, or ministry (preachers). I've also never seen that done anywhere, except Apostolic churches. I believe, and have only served in churches where all tithes went to the ministry (the whole ministry of that local church), and the church had a strict budget for all expenditures. And all ministers (even senior pastor) were on salary. Just the smart way to do things in IMO

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

LOL, not sure why it BEGS the question... again, this has nothing to do with any extra Biblical teaching or anything like that. I'm a very frugal man, and live on a budget. I try to be a very good steward of my finances, and use widsom when make purchases. Since I live alone (if I aint making the money, nobody is), own a home, own a car, trying to put up for retirement, etc... have projects at the house that need to be done, and all the other bills any household has.... I have found that at $10, I can find ties that are nice enough to not be embarrassing, and also not feel guilty over how much I paid for it.

I also try to live as frugal working my secular job, as I did when I was full time ministry, and the members of the church paid my salary. Yes I earned it, but also people needed to feel confident they were investing in someone who wasn't wasting that hard earned money they were putting back into ministry. I felt an extra sense of duty to be an even better steward of my finances, so that folks that were contributing knew how much I appreciated the honor to be in full time ministry and not have to work a secular job. They needed to know I didn't see it as a free hand out, but that I worked hard, put in a ton of hours serving their families, community and the Lord, and that the honor of being able to do it full time gave me a sense of duty to not squander their funds they contributed.

I try to keep that same sense of stewardship today with my secular paycheck, for two reasons. 1, it's just smart financial management, but also, good practice should I ever be able to go back into full time ministry.

SIDEBAR: Hopefully to not take this thread more off topic than it is already.... I've never agreed with paying tithes all to the pastor, or ministry (preachers). I've also never seen that done anywhere, except Apostolic churches. I believe, and have only served in churches where all tithes went to the ministry (the whole ministry of that local church), and the church had a strict budget for all expenditures. And all ministers (even senior pastor) were on salary. Just the smart way to do things in IMO

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

LOL, not sure why it BEGS the question... again, this has nothing to do with any extra Biblical teaching or anything like that. I'm a very frugal man, and live on a budget. I try to be a very good steward of my finances, and use widsom when make purchases. Since I live alone (if I aint making the money, nobody is), own a home, own a car, trying to put up for retirement, etc... have projects at the house that need to be done, and all the other bills any household has.... I have found that at $10, I can find ties that are nice enough to not be embarrassing, and also not feel guilty over how much I paid for it.

I also try to live as frugal working my secular job, as I did when I was full time ministry, and the members of the church paid my salary. Yes I earned it, but also people needed to feel confident they were investing in someone who wasn't wasting that hard earned money they were putting back into ministry. I felt an extra sense of duty to be an even better steward of my finances, so that folks that were contributing knew how much I appreciated the honor to be in full time ministry and not have to work a secular job. They needed to know I didn't see it as a free hand out, but that I worked hard, put in a ton of hours serving their families, community and the Lord, and that the honor of being able to do it full time gave me a sense of duty to not squander their funds they contributed.

I try to keep that same sense of stewardship today with my secular paycheck, for two reasons. 1, it's just smart financial management, but also, good practice should I ever be able to go back into full time ministry.

SIDEBAR: Hopefully to not take this thread more off topic than it is already.... I've never agreed with paying tithes all to the pastor, or ministry (preachers). I've also never seen that done anywhere, except Apostolic churches. I believe, and have only served in churches where all tithes went to the ministry (the whole ministry of that local church), and the church had a strict budget for all expenditures. And all ministers (even senior pastor) were on salary. Just the smart way to do things in IMO

Makes sense to me. I was just curious as to whether there was significance to the $10 mark, instead of $15 or $20, etc.

I do agree with the need to be good stewards, especially for those in full-time ministry. I did the same thing.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I heard a preacher say that you should dress your best when coming to church (part of the first fruits i guess). He stated that being in the presence of God should warrant what we wear. I fail to see the logic behind his premise. I have prayed to God in my pj's and felt God just as much as I would if I were in church wearing a suit and a tie. Some preachers need to get off a high horse and get real.

It's an Old Testament view of God that remains alive in legalist circles. The church building is the "House of God" even though NT doctrine shows that God's people are His dwelling place. They have the pastor who is the NT equivalent of the High Priest although NT doctrine teaches that Jesus is our High Priest and that every believer has been made a priest unto God. They have the "altar" in the church building the place where God must be approached although NT teaching shows us that the veil was torn in the Temple and that the Holy Spirit can be approached anywhere and everywhere. And then there's the never ending list of rules that have replaced the OT laws and the years of additions the Jews wrote in conjunction with those laws even though the NT clearly teaches that righteousness cannot be achieved through law keeping.

And then there's the idea that you have to wear fine clothes to go "into the Presence of God". Well, you're in the Presence of God in the shower in your birthday suit. I certainly don't advocate nude church, but I reject the idea that God is offended at a pair of jeans, a tshirt and flip flops. Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart.

[bbyrd009]

Ecclesiastes 9:8
English Standard Version (©2001)
Let your garments be always white. Let not oil be lacking on your head.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Let your clothes be white all the time, and let not oil be lacking on your head.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Always wear clean clothes, and never go without lotion on your head.

Ok, we don't do the head oil thing now; other translations indicate
"smell nice."

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

It's an Old Testament view of God that remains alive in legalist circles. The church building is the "House of God" even though NT doctrine shows that God's people are His dwelling place. They have the pastor who is the NT equivalent of the High Priest although NT doctrine teaches that Jesus is our High Priest and that every believer has been made a priest unto God. They have the "altar" in the church building the place where God must be approached although NT teaching shows us that the veil was torn in the Temple and that the Holy Spirit can be approached anywhere and everywhere. And then there's the never ending list of rules that have replaced the OT laws and the years of additions the Jews wrote in conjunction with those laws even though the NT clearly teaches that righteousness cannot be achieved through law keeping.

And then there's the idea that you have to wear fine clothes to go "into the Presence of God". Well, you're in the Presence of God in the shower in your birthday suit. I certainly don't advocate nude church, but I reject the idea that God is offended at a pair of jeans, a tshirt and flip flops. Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

It's an Old Testament view of God that remains alive in legalist circles. The church building is the "House of God" even though NT doctrine shows that God's people are His dwelling place. They have the pastor who is the NT equivalent of the High Priest although NT doctrine teaches that Jesus is our High Priest and that every believer has been made a priest unto God. They have the "altar" in the church building the place where God must be approached although NT teaching shows us that the veil was torn in the Temple and that the Holy Spirit can be approached anywhere and everywhere. And then there's the never ending list of rules that have replaced the OT laws and the years of additions the Jews wrote in conjunction with those laws even though the NT clearly teaches that righteousness cannot be achieved through law keeping.

And then there's the idea that you have to wear fine clothes to go "into the Presence of God". Well, you're in the Presence of God in the shower in your birthday suit. I certainly don't advocate nude church, but I reject the idea that God is offended at a pair of jeans, a tshirt and flip flops. Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart.

This may totally be true for some, or even many... but I would discourage you from using that broad brush to paint us all. My views on how one should dress for church has nothing to do with any of that, but more of a societal respect that I think the way you dress gives. To me, when we gather, in any kind of corporate/community gathering, it is disrespectful to myself and those around me if I just slap on whatever feels comfortable to wear. I wear a suit and tie when I go to church, and when I'm in the pulpit. But I also do for funeral home visitation, and the funeral home. I also wear slacks and a nice shirt at the very least for hospital visits, or visiting someone's home.... but I've never thought I was being spiritual by doing so, or somehow keeping some Biblical viewpoint.

I was doing it out of respect for the community I was gathering with, my parents who raised me a certain way to what is appropriate and not, and respect of myself. So I'd appreciate you realizing not everyone falls under the broad brush you just used because some of us feel it's appropriate to dress up for church.

[MissBrattified]

I believe that Christians should care about what God thinks AND what others think. Yes, there are limits to how much we can please others and there should be limits to how much we allow that to affect our personal choices, but at the same time we aren't to deliberately offend. I wear a wedding ring and gold watch, but when I go to certain churches, I take them off. It's a matter of being inoffensive. Why would I want to offend anyone? When we purposely offend with our personal liberties, our attitude needs a check. Furthermore, if I'm in any position of teaching or ministering to others, showing up in something I know will offend people stops my ability to teach them or minister to them from the get-go. Right, wrong or indifferent, people will not listen to someone who offends them. That's human nature.

Man does look at the outward appearance, because that's all we have to go on. Since we know that, we should care about how we present ourselves to others. It isn't a criticism of human nature to say that man looks on the outward--it's a statement of reality. Wisdom says that we deal with people according to their nature. Can we expect them to be God and see into our hearts? No. They're going to act like people and they go by what they see.

That doesn't mean I agree with the pastor and his opinions, but again--if you know you're dressing in a way that will offend others, why do it?

[Coady]

The older I get, the less respect I have for the "professional attire" of the Dewey, Cheatum and Howe "dressed for success" types. Whether they're selling me an insurance policy, advising me where to invest or getting out of their bmw at the back of the hospital my attennaes are up. YRMV.