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  #81  
Old 04-26-2014, 06:19 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

God is not human, he does not abide by human limitations.
He is beyond human.
I find all this talk about God as a person pure nonsense.
He is not a person, he is spirit.

He is everywhere at the same time (Omnipresent)
The Eyes of the Lord are everywhere

He has all power (Omnipotent)
God created the heavens and the earth

He knows all things (Omniscient)
His wisdom is infinite

Humans just are not capable of understanding God, he is beyond our understanding or knowledge.
The Bible talks about the 7 spirits of God, but it could as well talk about the 7 billion spirits of God, for he is limitless.

Does he not hear your prayers while at the same time hearing the prayers of someone in china or in England. He hears a billion prayers at the same time and does not skip a beat. His spirit is in a billion places at the same time and here we are quibbling about him being three persons.
If he is present in a billion places at the same time, does that not make God a multiplicity.

God is indeed one, but he is also an infinite multiplicity, he is beyond our puny human understanding, knowledge, in ways that we can not comprehend and beyond our imagination.
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  #82  
Old 04-26-2014, 07:38 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

Brother, no where will you ever hear me say God is a person. (Just for the record)
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  #83  
Old 04-26-2014, 11:10 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Brother, no where will you ever hear me say God is a person. (Just for the record)
Why not? The bible calls Him a person. He is a person who manifested perfectly in flesh by the Son of God.

Heb 1:3 KJV Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
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  #84  
Old 04-27-2014, 12:19 AM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Why not? The bible calls Him a person. He is a person who manifested perfectly in flesh by the Son of God.

Heb 1:3 KJV Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Bro Blume

you got me.

However let me say that the bible never says Persons as in plural only Person.
So yes God has been called Person.
Which brings me up to what exactly does the term Person means?
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  #85  
Old 04-27-2014, 08:14 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
Bro Blume

you got me.

However let me say that the bible never says Persons as in plural only Person.
So yes God has been called Person.
Which brings me up to what exactly does the term Person means?


Thayer said this:

G5287
ὑπόστασις
hupostasis
Thayer Definition:
1) a setting or placing under
1a) thing put under, substructure, foundation

2) that which has foundation, is firm
2a) that which has actual existence
2a1) a substance, real being
2b) the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing
2c) the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution
2c1) confidence, firm trust, assurance
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"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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  #86  
Old 04-27-2014, 03:27 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
Bro Blume

you got me.

However let me say that the bible never says Persons as in plural only Person.
So yes God has been called Person.
Which brings me up to what exactly does the term Person means?
Trins will fight to the death to remove the word "person" from Heb.1:3. Reason being it would show Christ is not "another person".

Rather Christ is "his person".
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  #87  
Old 04-28-2014, 01:58 AM
adampastor adampastor is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Have you ever noticed that in the two Genealogies that have Jesus in them (Matt 1 and Luke 3) it never uses the word begat about Jesus.
Not so! The Greek word used for begat gennaō is used in Matthew 1:16 and 1:20.

Matt 1:16

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born [begat - same Greek word] Jesus, who is called Christ.

So verse 16 is saying "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is called Christ.

Mat 1:20

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived [begotten - same Greek word] in her is of the Holy Ghost.

In other words, that which is begotten in her is of the holy Ghost.

Let's not forget the announcement of Gabriel in Luke 1:35 ...
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born [begotten - same Greek word] of thee shall be called the Son of God.

So Gabriel announced to Mary that that which is begotten of her shall be called the Son of God. Why? Because the One God, the Father, has caused this - that a child would be miraculously begotten in her and for that reason (Greek dio kai) he shall be called "the Son of God."


Matthew and Luke clearly state that Jesus indeed was begotten (past tense of begat) in the womb of Mary by the power of God's Spirit.

So Matthew does indeed use the same Greek word in the genealogy when speaking of Jesus. Sadly, it was the translators who chose to use the words 'born & conceived' instead of 'begotten'

Likewise, Luke used the same Greek word for 'begat'; however the translators used the word 'born'

It's therefore, a translation issue.

Likewise Micah 5:2 - which is simply stating that the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem, had been spoken of ages ago i.e. whose goings forth have been from of old, from old time.

The translators (because of their obvious trinitarian bias to present a pre-existing 'God the Son') chose to translate the Hebrew as from everlasting when it comes to Jesus; yet the same Hebrew is rightly translated of old (time) in Gen. 6:4; 1 Sam. 27:8; Isa 51:9; Jer 28:8; Ezek 26:20; Amos 9:11; Micah 7:14, Mal. 3:4.

And Hebrews 7:3 (as already pointed out) is simply stating that there is no genealogical record, no time of birth/death given when it comes to the priest Melchizedek. So, using Hebraic metaphor, there is no record of Melchizedek actually dying. Therefore his priesthood is ongoing.
In this sense Jesus the Son of God; likewise abideth a priest continually.

That is the point, that the writer of Hebrews is making.

Hope this clarifies ...
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  #88  
Old 04-28-2014, 02:53 AM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Not quite Prax...I was trying to say the Father WAS inside the man on earth, and inside the 'omnipresent body" of Christ NOW...God just "rebirthed" the destroyed body of His human son and the Father(God) DWELLS in it now. The Spirit is in the man.

.
Yes but you still have two persons. One is God, one is not but becomes God.

BTW "Omnipresent body"?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #89  
Old 04-28-2014, 02:54 AM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
I dont see 1 AND 1, but I see 1 IN 1.(God in man) (I guess you dont see what I see) sorry.

.
That's actually what I said YOU said..guess you didn't read what I said very carefully
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #90  
Old 04-28-2014, 06:22 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Oneness Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Trins will fight to the death to remove the word "person" from Heb.1:3. Reason being it would show Christ is not "another person".

Rather Christ is "his person".
The text referenced reads,

Hebrews 1:1-3
King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
From this we can conclude that the man, Jesus Christ (the Son), who was made heir of all things, by whom also the Father made the worlds, is the very brightness of the Father's glory, and the express image of His person.

In other words... the man, Jesus, is the full expression of the Father's person in full humanity.

I'm not paranoid about the word "person". To me, a "person" is a self-conscious being who can relate via an "I/thou" relationship (which we see in Christ's prayers and communication with the Father). Therefore, Jesus appears to be a second person. However, this "person" that we see in the Son isn't a second divine person... it's a human person who is the express image of God's own person. The man perfectly reflects the very God who indwells Him.
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