House church or excuse?

[good samaritan]

Where do we get the idea that God desires building at all? Or that we should be extravagant, when it comes to God, and put our money where our mouth is.
Yes put your money where your mouth is! But not into buildings, rather proclaiming the good news to the world. How many millions of dollars are spent to pay for extravagant buildings and paid priest. (preachers)

Act 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
Act 7:45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
Act 7:46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Jesus sent his disciples ahead to take care of reserving a place for the last supper? Buildings aren't spiritual, but are necessary depending on the region of the world you live in. I would hate to gather on the streets in bellow freezing weather or in blistering heat. Although the type of facility, and the method of acquiring it doesn't matter. The purpose must be the gathering of the church.

I think the buildings are a cultural thing. Why do families of 3 and 4 desire 2,000+ sq. ft. homes with everyone in the household an automobile. Church as we know it today has be influenced by culture. The message must not change. When I said extavagant I did not mean spending money needlessly or more than can be afforded. My point was that we are to generously give to the work of God.

Also I don't see where the early church funding was solely for giving to the poor. I find that they where much like a commune would be today. The church in Jerusalem sold everything and shared their wealth from the apostles feet. Other churches didn't sell everything but they took offerings to support church needs local and foreign. They prioritized giving to the household of faith. I am sure their charity went to other places as well.

Our priority should be to see the lost saved and not just to pay sinners electric. I have seen church generosity taken advantage of. Many people will hop from church to church, only to see if they can receive assistence, while no desire for change. I would rather invest in more Sunday classes, musical equip., etc. than to just dispense church offerings to people who are not their for Jesus.

I think we are sometimes too critical of one another. I am not condemning those in house churches, but people must be careful of following unknown and unproven ministers who are isolated. Sometimes people may be doing the house church thing because of reasons other than God. Many wolves in sheep's clothing.

[good samaritan]

Buildings are just conveniences, but if we enjoy having those conveniences then we should do our fair share.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am not condemning those in house churches, but people must be careful of following unknown and unproven ministers who are isolated. Sometimes people may be doing the house church thing because of reasons other than God. Many wolves in sheep's clothing.

Just as counterpoint, and not as a point of contention, your quote above could easily be reworded:

I am not condemning those in [organized] churches, but people must be careful of following unknown and unproven ministers who are [integrated]. Sometimes people may be doing the [organized] church thing because of reasons other than God. Many wolves in sheep's clothing.

The organized (as opposed to organic) church structure makes use of a lot of unknown and unproven to the local assembly ministers. I've seen a countless number of preaches and evangelists come through because some sectional or district rep called a pastor and asked the church to give so and so some time to minister because he was deputizing, or whatever.

They show up, and are crackpots, but everyone acts like it's okay, because they're a part of the same organized "church".

The point being, is that caution and discernment needs to be exercised across the board, and across the aisle, so to speak.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Just as counterpoint, and not as a point of contention, your quote above could easily be reworded:



The organized (as opposed to organic) church structure makes use of a lot of unknown and unproven to the local assembly ministers. I've seen a countless number of preaches and evangelists come through because some sectional or district rep called a pastor and asked the church to give so and so some time to minister because he was deputizing, or whatever.

They show up, and are crackpots, but everyone acts like it's okay, because they're a part of the same organized "church".

The point being, is that caution and discernment needs to be exercised across the board, and across the aisle, so to speak.

I would also add that the fruit of a man is easily discovered in a house church setting. The setting is so much more personal and intimate. True colors reveal themselves quickly. In an organized, building owned, tradition type church, a man may have a decent pulpit ministry (and I use that word with discretion), but the true fruit of who is he as a man, never gets revealed, because the setting never gets more intimate than the width of the line between clergy and laity (which in some cases, seems miles wide, intentionally done, by the clergy).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I would also add that the fruit of a man is easily discovered in a house church setting. The setting is so much more personal and intimate. True colors reveal themselves quickly. In an organized, building owned, tradition type church, a man may have a decent pulpit ministry (and I use that word with discretion), but the true fruit of who is he as a man, never gets revealed, because the setting never gets more intimate than the width of the line between clergy and laity (which in some cases, seems miles wide, intentionally done, by the clergy).

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Just as counterpoint, and not as a point of contention, your quote above could easily be reworded:



The organized (as opposed to organic) church structure makes use of a lot of unknown and unproven to the local assembly ministers. I've seen a countless number of preaches and evangelists come through because some sectional or district rep called a pastor and asked the church to give so and so some time to minister because he was deputizing, or whatever.

They show up, and are crackpots, but everyone acts like it's okay, because they're a part of the same organized "church".

The point being, is that caution and discernment needs to be exercised across the board, and across the aisle, so to speak.

Very true. I have seen false teachers and preachers in both arenas. Adolf
Hitler was a very motivational speaker. Individuals must be sure in what they become part of.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

So if I understand what you are implying, it takes a ordained preacher to preach the gospel in order for someone to get saved. If that is what you mean I must disagree. The work of the ministerial gifts were never given to herald the good news, they are given to equip the saints for the work of ministry, to edify the body of Christ till all come in the unity of faith.
We are al called to herald the good news, not just those called to minister to the body of Christ.

You don't understand, because I'm not implying anything.

I am saying that the Ministry must be functioning in a "House Church" as well
as in an "Organized Church". Otherwise, the same problems will be manifested
in both. Without the Ministry, then "...the perfection of the saints; for the work
of the ministry; and for the edifying of the saints..." will take a very long time
in developing.

You are correct: it is the Church that must "herald the good news": it is the
Ministry that should prepare her for that. But that is what I have been saying,
and preaching, for a very long time. But here's the problem: because the FULL
Ministry has not been made available by most organizations/denominations, the
Church has become stagnant in developing into her full potential. That's why
some have left the True Gospel, thinking there must be a different Gospel! Now if
the children are not taught well, they will either learn by trial and error (which
will take them a long time), or else they may not learn at all!

"...for the work of the ministry..."

[Esaias]

It was the catholic church that brought in the trinity. Along with church buildings, priestcraft, denominationalism, pagan holy days, and a lot of other innovations.

Some folks just don't want anything to do with any of that...

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

You don't understand, because I'm not implying anything.

I am saying that the Ministry must be functioning in a "House Church" as well
as in an "Organized Church". Otherwise, the same problems will be manifested
in both. Without the Ministry, then "...the perfection of the saints; for the work
of the ministry; and for the edifying of the saints..." will take a very long time
in developing.

You are correct: it is the Church that must "herald the good news": it is the
Ministry that should prepare her for that. But that is what I have been saying,
and preaching, for a very long time. But here's the problem: because the FULL
Ministry has not been made available by most organizations/denominations, the
Church has become stagnant in developing into her full potential. That's why
some have left the True Gospel, thinking there must be a different Gospel! Now if
the children are not taught well, they will either learn by trial and error (which
will take them a long time), or else they may not learn at all!

"...for the work of the ministry..."

I'm sorry son, but the real reason that people fall off the surf board is heart problem. And a lot of time these young men leave good churches is because a man is trying to develop them and they either leave too early or they have it in their heart to preach and they are not called of God, anointed, have ability, or fruit. They get in the fit because they're not being used and they think they should be when the bottom line is pride.

[Cracker Barrel]

Other times, men that have small congregations and they are afraid to lose good people. If a family is productive and have helped the church greatly it can feel like loss when a good family goes out to work in their own field. Sounds selfish but is just human nature. As the wave falls.