Numerical Growth Is Not A Sign Of Revival...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, you gotta see that the RCC prolly says the same of OPs, so what is the diff?

Of course! Always think the worst, after all. No one could actually mean the truth of the issue

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

No one is saying baptism does not represent those things in scripture, what I am saying is that is all they do, represent deliverance, and being buried, etc.
One might want to remember that the religious leaders of Christ day got all their traditions from quoting OT scripture too, yet Christ told them that was all they were "traditions of men".
"SEARCH THE SCRIPTURE THINKING YOU HAVE FOUND ETERNAL LIFE BUT THEY SPEAK OF ME"
(Christ)

They speak of Christ and him crucified. A work of God actually occurs in baptism due to our faith and obedience . It's not mere representation.

Again water actually delivered Noah. What does water baptism actually deliver anyone from if it's only symbolic? Peter said it delivers

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Questions that need an answer:
[*]What was Noah delivered from BEFORE THE FLOOD? Peter's chapter is about the water delivering him. Salvation is deliverance.
[*]How is mikvah anything related to putting us into the death of Jesus (Ro 6:3)?
[*]How is circumcision mandatory, or else folks weren't allowed in the religious activity of Israel? How does baptism fit in theology in the way that circumcision was demanded in order to get involved in worship in Israel? Translate that demand of circumcision for involvement in worship into New Testament baptism.

It is as Paul wrote in Romans 4, it was the seal of the covenant. It was what circumcision represented, not what it did. Circumcision did nothing but mutilate the body, it did not make one clean. It represented cleanness. Just as baptism does not clean one but represents burial with Christ, represents being cleaned from sin.
Believing that the literal act of water baptism is the exact point sins are washed away, is much like the religious leaders of Christ day, that accused the disciples of eating with unwashed hands. They believed that evil spirits could come into a person if they did not wash their hands before eating.
It is a tradition of man, that water baptism is the point sins are washed away. The cross washed away all sins, and we accept that by faith, period.

"as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the son of man be lifted up, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life".

Never answered my questions at all. Can you do his again? I can rephrase them to show how you did not answer them if you wish

[shazeep]

no, but it does supercede them, as the evidence that they all ended in "love" demonstrated; and as several parables show. And as basically the whole OT shows.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

no, but it does supercede them, as the evidence that they all ended in "love" demonstrated; and as several parables show. And as basically the whole OT shows.

Love supercedes everything, but again that does not excuse one from obedience to what the apostles commanded for salvation.

[shazeep]

Can hardly wait to "explain" something you obviously don't get, as usual. All any of us has is opinions, Mike.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Can hardly wait to "explain" something you obviously don't get, as usual. All any of us has is opinions, Mike.

Keep avoiding.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Keep avoiding.

funny, that is exactly my judgement of you
but of course it comes with a prayer!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

funny, that is exactly my judgement of you
but of course it comes with a prayer!

Shazeep, be honest. Not once have you dealt with any points I made in extensive explanations. Not once. You will not deal with explanations of scripture that teaches detailed doctrine. You make statements about issues and I explain them with overall bible teaching on the subject, and you rudely act as though I explained nothing, and talk the same rant that you rant while you endeavour to remain smugly polite about.

[votivesoul]

Locking this thread, as it has devolved into an argument.