Help With The Greek

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If I am not mistaken a correct view of the Logos was a part of early Oneness teaching?

True. When I say "new" I mean new to the majority of Oneness believers today.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Perhaps instead of saying the Logos is the plan God had of Christ we should say the plan or Idea of God is the Logos.

This way we emphasize both the Idea or Plan aspect of the Logos along with the actual Person of God aspect of the Logos, rather than devaluing the Logos into a mere thought or idea in God's mind.

I also would avoid saying the Word of life is "a portion" of God's eternal life, rather it IS God's eternal life being expressed as a Being we call Jehovah, and that expression or manifestation of God became flesh as the Son of God.

Im on board with the bold. The Logos WAS in Gods mind before it was visibly formed.

As far as the Logos being a "portion" of Gods being I believe it holds with Johns writing that "the word was WITH God". The visible was WITH the invisible. Not as another person but as his own image.

Note what God said about Moses.

Numbers 12:8

8With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

The similitude was the Logos obviously.

Note the Hebrew meaning of "similitude".

8544-Something PORTIONED, fashioned out as a SHAPE.

[Scott Pitta]

Logos = He was with God in the beginning.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Costeon

We have to be careful when saying "closer to the Greek" and what we mean by that. The German would be closer to the Greek word order but not the Greek meaning. English translations (besides those from Coverdale) don't woodenly follow the word order but translate as literally as possible while still conveying the meaning. Again, since English is a not an inflected language, word order establishes meaning. Since "ho logos" unquestionably is the subject, "the Word" comes before "God."

Your explanations here have been good, and you seem to know the complex Tyndale editions situation as well. (I looked into that in the context of the heavenly witnesses verse.) Thanks!

btw, I am looking for someone with strong and solid Greek reading savvy and who is comfortable with a textual project to help on a special Codex Sinaiticus question. The question at hand is analyzing the data that would support (or not) the c. 1820 Zosimas Moscow Bible being used as a textual source in the creation of Codex Sinaiticus.

Steven

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Logos = He was with God in the beginning.

What translation is that?

[Scott Pitta]

Jn. 1:2.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Jn. 1:2.

He was with God in the beginning.

The same was in the beginning with God.

You are specifically referring to οὗτος?

KJV got it right, and NIV has it wrong.

[Scott Pitta]

οὗτος is "he" or is frequently translated that way.

How do you usually translate οὗτος?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

οὗτος is "he" or is frequently translated that way.

How do you usually translate οὗτος?

Most often (even to this day) "this." Therefore the KJV interpreted the verse "the same."

Scott didn't you learn Greek translation in school? Didn't you notice that οὗτος is "this." While in other areas it can also be she, he, or it? Maybe "she" was in the beginning with God?

[Scott Pitta]

οὗτος

Jn. 1:2
Jn. 1:7
Jn. 1:15
Jn. 1:30
Jn. 1:33
Jn. 1:34
Jn. 1:41