Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Sanctuary > Deep Waters
Facebook

Notices

Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 07-08-2007, 02:14 PM
Pressing-On's Avatar
Pressing-On Pressing-On is offline
Not riding the train


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
If authored by God, any category we prosper in pertaining to this world will be AS OUR SOUL prospers. Joseph's soul prospered and THEN his life circumstances were prospered.

Our fellowship with the giver of every good gift will establish our ability to have the wisdom and understanding to move in the ways that will prosper us.


IMO, an "uncommon seed" is all about getting the hearer to buy into the idea that if I give money to whatever the specific speaker is telling me, I will reap a harvest of the same stuff I have sown....MONEY!

We MUST KNOW the "wise builder" whose voice we are following; a man's or God's.
Good post, tbpew! I love the emboldened!!!
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 07-08-2007, 11:36 PM
SISTER Murphy
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Joseph made the choice not to do the whatuzzi with Potiphar's wife. That set into motion the next phase of his life. Joseph interpreted the dreams of the butler and the baker. He asked one of them to put in a good word for him at the palace.

God won't move a person to the next level unless they want to move. If he did, the Children of Israel wouldn't have wondered in the wilderness for 40 years waiting for the unbelievers to die off.

The Bible is full of examples of people letting go the good in order to have the great. Sometimes getting to the great takes more than one step.

Without a doubt, but the story of Joseph is not one of those. His is the story of God taking what others meant for evil and turning it for good (at least, that's what the BIBLE says about it.)
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 07-08-2007, 11:56 PM
SISTER Murphy
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
There has been scriptural evidence provided. I've provided a few scritpures for thought. Thanks for ignoring that fact.

It is not suprising a person doesn't get the Biblical principle of prosperity right when they misapply the Biblical principle of holiness.
Boy, what a narrow little box you live in! But, as you said, "it is not surprising a person doesn't get" the Biblical principles of holiness when they've been following improper teachings of scripture, ie, the 'prosperity gospel'. Sorry, friend, but the problem with the 'prosperity gospel', at least, in all the folks I have heard proclaim it, is that it is prosperity that is sough and glorified. This is foundationally wrong, for we are to be seeking to have a relationship with our Saviour. Then, whatever that relationship brings, trials, troubles, prosperity, blessings... we have the proper understanding that what is of true value is that relationship with Jesus.

Scripture? Yes, I have provided a lot, and I will provide more:

Psalm 49:6-7
They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Psalm 62:7-11
In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.
Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.
Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.
God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.

Proverbs 11:28
He that trusteth in his riches shall fall: but the righteous shall flourish as a branch.

Proverbs 23:5
Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.

Matthew 6:19-21
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Matthew 13:22; Mark 4:18-19
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Luke 12:15-34
And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


James 5:1-3
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

I Timothy 6:3-11, 17-19
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
But godliness with contentment is great gain.
For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 07-09-2007, 12:00 AM
SISTER Murphy
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I think tv1a's point was that Joseph was being blessed every step of the way - even in his suffering and testing. The "no weapon formed against thee shall prosper...."

My point was that I agree Joseph was being blessed, even in prison, but I don't think the typical Prosperity Doctrine teaches that. It seems to only reflect on monetary gain.
Exactly! Giving for the purpose of getting. And that is so shallow, so carnal, so not Biblical. What a lame excuse of a wife I would be if I only did things for my husband when I wanted him to do something in return. That isn't love, that isn't even a decent friendship. But that is how some big name televangelists teach people to act towards God, the One Who came Himself and took on our sins and paid the price for them with His own blood! How revolting that must be to Him, how hurtful that must be.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 07-09-2007, 12:33 AM
Rico Rico is offline
Shaking the dust off my shoes.


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
I haven't read all the posts in this thred, so maybe someone has already brought this up: If apostolics would would actually teach what the Bible teaches about prosperity then junk like this wouldn't make its way into our churches. There seems to be a fear of teaching biblical principles for prosperity in apostolic churches and I don't know why. And no, I am not talking about tithing either.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 07-09-2007, 12:43 AM
SISTER Murphy
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico View Post
I haven't read all the posts in this thred, so maybe someone has already brought this up: If apostolics would would actually teach what the Bible teaches about prosperity then junk like this wouldn't make its way into our churches. There seems to be a fear of teaching biblical principles for prosperity in apostolic churches and I don't know why. And no, I am not talking about tithing either.
Absolutely! I am so thankful for a good pastor who teaches what the Bible teaches about all of those principles of giving, blessing, obedience, faithfulness, submission, worship, charity, faith, deliverance, liberty, sound doctrine, authority, righteousness, peace, joy, victory.....

And then, ABOVE that, I have a most wonderful husband who does an outstanding job of applying the Word of God to our marriage and our home. I am so, so blessed!
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 07-09-2007, 12:44 AM
Trouvere's Avatar
Trouvere Trouvere is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 4,184
where are they getting this uncommon seed idea? Nothing is new in the bible.
You reap what you sow.Its God law of the harvest not anything new.I think
its just an idea MM is using to sell his books.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 07-09-2007, 09:16 AM
tbpew's Avatar
tbpew tbpew is offline
but made himself of no reputation


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: middle Atlantic region
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trouvere View Post
where are they getting this uncommon seed idea? Nothing is new in the bible.
You reap what you sow.Its God law of the harvest not anything new.I think
its just an idea MM is using to sell his books.
This post stirs a certain specific thought in me.
Is the "uncommon-ness" the seed or the quantity in which a "common" seed is sown? My guess is Murdock & Parsley are speaking of the latter. IMO, they are asking their followers to sow money in a way that is UNCOMMON within the individual giver's experience. The field that they are being asked to cast/sow their seed upon, is the field of the 'Wisdom Center'.

Note: This idea is certainly something all of us are familiar with. Very few of us have been encouraged to cheerfully give to any other need or treasury than the local assembly that we frequent, and certainly NOT outside the member-minister organization that the founding/senior pastor fellowships.

So WHAT is being sown?
Money?
Cheerfulness?
thanksgiving?
faithfulness?
insurance?

Whatever we sow, our expectation is to reap IN KIND.

IMO, Murdock is teaching that if you SOW MONEY ($58 or $1000) you will REAP an increase of MONEY.
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 07-09-2007, 10:14 AM
Brother Strange
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
I do not believe in trying to manipulate God for financial gain with money. THAT GOD is Mammon. He is akin to Baal. To use "Cathaderal of Wisdom" philosophy during offering time, espcially by the use of the Office of Prophet or the gift of Prophecy is reprehensible if not worse.

It matters not in the least to me if this statement galls everything from General Supretendent to the wineo under the bridge. My attitude is, you agree, disagree, love it, hate it, like it or lump it. Your choice.

One poster made a stupid lawsuit threat. Too many lawyers in my family to care. It's amazing how silly one can become when emotionally overwhelmed.

Is this arrogance? No. I am heartbroken over the meaness and ugly spirits manifested over an expressed personal opinion that was not aimed at a person or persons, but rather, the misuse of office/gifting for collective purposes, regardless now noble the intent.

In it all, a shift in the movement is appropriately noted.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 07-09-2007, 11:11 AM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Strange View Post
I do not believe in trying to manipulate God for financial gain with money. THAT GOD is Mammon. He is akin to Baal. To use "Cathaderal of Wisdom" philosophy during offering time, espcially by the use of the Office of Prophet or the gift of Prophecy is reprehensible if not worse.
Here you go again with your baseless accusations. Where's the proof? You're long on accusations but short on proof.

What is this Cathedral of Wisdom philosophy and how was it used at the Campmeeting? You accused the minister before of using words "verbatim" from the Cathedral. What words are they and can anyone else verify this?

Mods - either he needs to present proof of his accusations or he should be required to retract them the same as anyone else on here!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What was the UPCI "Philippines Fiasco" that Took Place in the late 1980s??? StillStanding Fellowship Hall 47 02-04-2008 10:09 PM
News Report On "Snake Handling & Speaking In Tongue" CC1 Fellowship Hall 100 06-05-2007 09:37 PM
The Seed Truly Blessed Fellowship Hall 2 05-28-2007 10:20 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Costeon

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.