Since the heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm not sure what you are saying, but the scripture is instructing forgiveness by saying - "shall be in danger". It's a warning and shows the extent someone will go with unforgiveness in their heart. It doesn't mention forgiveness, but it stands to reason it is or needs to be present with that kind of attitude.


But by going to the "offendee" you are opening up the heart of the "offendee" to see a better way. It is a process of forgiveness. Some people must be taught by example. So, I believe the scripture is reaching for the "offendee", because he cannot help himself.


Here again, we are reaching for the "offendee" by going the extra mile to pull him out of his state of mind.

I don't believe any of the scripture you posted are overlooking the "offendee", but reaching for him.



Again, I believe the instructions are clear - reach for the lost. Show them a more excellent way.

I understand where you are coming from and can see the principles you are gleaning from the text. I, on the other hand, am, for the purpose of deciding if we are required to forgive before asked, seeing the text from an instructional standpoint and do not see where we are being instructed to forgive before being asked to by the offender.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Rico,
I have to disagree. If you are laying your gift at the altar you are searching for reconciliation.

If you are working with someone to find reconciliation by going to them alone, the decent thing to do, and then bringing others for help, I feel you have already forgiven them or you wouldn't have gone the extra mile.

This passage speaks of "shall be in danger" if you do these things: be angry w/o cause, call your brother Raca or a fool. It is a deeper instruction for finding forgiveness. It bears out, in a deeper meaning, to find forgiveness whether someone wants to give it or not, IMO.

Sister, I am having some trouble knowing exactly which parts you are responding to and what goes to what. Can you clarify a bit? You did a boo boo somewhere in your editing. Thanks.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rico

Sister, I am having some trouble knowing exactly which parts you are responding to and what goes to what. Can you clarify a bit? You did a boo boo somewhere in your editing. Thanks.

I thought I did. LOL!

Let me look again.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Rico,
I have to disagree. If you are laying your gift at the altar you are searching for reconciliation.

If you are working with someone to find reconciliation by going to them alone, the decent thing to do, and then bringing others for help, I feel you have already forgiven them or you wouldn't have gone the extra mile.

This passage speaks of "shall be in danger" if you do these things: be angry w/o cause, call your brother Raca or a fool. It is a deeper instruction for finding forgiveness. It bears out, in a deeper meaning, to find forgiveness whether someone wants to give it or not, IMO.

Ok. I think I get what you were trying to say. The reason I highlighted the "without cause" part was to show that God was differentiating between those who are angry without cause and those who are angry with cause. Those instructions, in that portion of scripture, are not for anyone who is angry with cause. The other instructions are for those who have a legitimate trespass against them.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Rico

This is not to say anything against women, but I believe how we relate to our Earthly father affects our relationship with God more than how we relate to our mother.

Thats right Rico, I wasn't telling the story to emphasis her mother (who was dead) but her father basically abandoned her emotionally.

He left her in a catholic convent for the nuns to raise, but they abused her.

She said he was very depressed all the time and would cry over losing her mother, he was like living with a ghost.

Anyway she is a pastors wife today but still struggles with whether God really loves her because of the pain she faced.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Thats right Rico, I wasn't telling the story to emphasis her mother (who was dead) but her father basically abandoned her emotionally.

He left her in a catholic convent for the nuns to raise, but they abused her.

She said he was very depressed all the time and would cry over losing her mother, he was like living with a ghost.

Anyway she is a pastors wife today but still struggles with whether God really loves her because of the pain she faced.

I think any traumatic experience whether it comes from a male or female, is going to skew anyone's view of God. People are the only thing we have to judge relationship with.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think any traumatic experience whether it comes from a male or female, is going to skew anyone's view of God. People are the only thing we have to judge relationship with.

True, but our relationship with our Earthly father has more potential to affect our relationship with our Heavenly Father than other relationships would.

[rgcraig]

I'm am extrememly happy to have had a wonderful dad! He's the most kind, loving, Godly, giving and level-headed person I know and I think it's a HUGE compliment when someone tells me I'm just like my dad!

Just wanted to interject that, but because I had such a great dad it hurts me deeply to see others miss out on such a great experience. It hurts me for my kids!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I'm am extrememly happy to have had a wonderful dad! He's the most kind, loving, Godly, giving and level-headed person I know and I think it's a HUGE compliment when someone tells me I'm just like my dad!

Just wanted to interject that, but because I had such a great dad it hurts me deeply to see others miss out on such a great experience. It hurts me for my kids!

Can we talk about my mother?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Can we talk about my mother?

Do you need to forgive her?