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  #921  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:16 PM
rdp rdp is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Im not sure the Women should only win Women deal is practical. Imagine going out door knocking.

Man opens the door

Woman"Sir? Is the Lady of the house home?"

Man: "It's jut me?"

Woman: "Never mind..." woman walks away



Complete straw-man - This is NOT the scenario I'm discussing & you know it . I am talking about a saved woman in the church giving home-Bible studies to an unsaved-sinner man on a continual basis - & not merely handing a man a tract or inviting a man to church as you've described above.


Silly objection....Next....




They were doing two things, they were teaching AND Preaching...at least that is what your verses say.


Are you suggesting (with a straight face) that teaching is not "preaching"?? Do church members not need "preaching" ?



As Per the quote, Preaching is mostly in regards to unbelievers.


This is simply an outlet (weasel) word Prax. Again, I'm asking you if you're seriously suggesting that believers do not need "preaching"?



When they become believers in the gospel, they want to learn and be taught

Yea' - And?? That's the whole point - Women in the church are not to be "teachers-preachers" to men in the church. I am honestly a bit confused as to specifically what you're suggesting? Are you agreeing or disagreeing that women shouldn't be "teaching" men in the church based upon the following passage (& there are many-many more) - or do you still believe that this is merely Paul's opinion?


"11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.....I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church."
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  #922  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:20 PM
rdp rdp is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
some people have such far out ideas....they are so afriad a woman might win a soul...

LOL - I agree about some people's "far out ideas" - such as the absurd notion that I Timothy 2 is only restricting a woman in the home-order - but then the roles can do a complete 180 degree flop in church-order !



Plumb silly......
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  #923  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:54 PM
rdp rdp is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
Some say they have conceded that women in the Bible could “prophesy” – speak a direct message from God – but maintain they were forbidden to study Scripture for themselves with a view to teaching, unless they taught other women and children.


Yea' - "some" like the Apostle Paul !



Those holding this view acknowledge that Priscilla taught Apollos but say it occurred in private. The fact remains, however, that she did teach a man!


LOL - Yea', so every husband & wife who now gives a home Bible study, the wife should automatically be classified in the NT 5-fold ministry ??? So silly.



Notice this:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

(MY note... for those not uese to foreign languages....men and brethern include women in the greek language just like in Portuguese)


Oh my goodness - you can't be serious (well, never mind ) - "men" includes "women"?? Here is the actual Greek text, along with precise morphology: http://biblehub.com/text/acts/1-16.htm.



Here is the actual definitions of these particular Greek nouns: Men: http://biblehub.com/greek/435.htm - Brethren: http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm


Now, to be fair & honest with the text (unlike you) - the Greek noun translated "Brethren" can, in some specific contexts, include a woman - but as you will see, this is only a secondary-possible meaning & is the reason it's translated as: believing husband (1x), brethren (170x's), brethren (13x's), brother (111x's), brother's (8x's), brothers (40x's) in the NASB - & never as "sister" (NASB is by far the most literal translation on the market) !



But it's patently absurd to say that the Greek noun "men" includes women ???



You've GOT to be kidding us??


Let's see how this works for you in I Tim. 2.12: "I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a 'WOMAN'" ???



So silly!!




17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


Sounds like the 120 all took part in this decision....they....The significant fact is, as stated above, that the women prayed alongside of the apostles and the others: “They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers” (1:14)... This Scripture runs contrary to the practice of many Christians today. Not only did the women pray in this gathering of the one hundred and twenty, but they also took part in casting lots in the choosing of Mathias (Acts 1:22-26)

There is no indication, from the context, that this selection process (casting lots) was limited only to the men. Yet again, some repetition is necessary for one to follow the logical sequence of events in order to show conclusively that the women were present in the events that transpired following the resurrection of Jesus (Luke 24:36-49). one cannot read this unit of Scripture (23:47-49) without a consciousness of two things: (1) the witnesses included women, and (2) the women who followed Jesus from Galilee were witnesses. Pay attention to Luke, as cited above, as he writes:“The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it” (23:55). The phrase “from Galilee” flashes like neon lights along side the mention of “women.” Why? Were they to witness concerning Jesus? As Luke continues his scenario, he sets forth the prominence of the women’s role following the resurrection. Remember, following the burial of Jesus, the women took spices to the tomb (24:1).
They found the stone rolled away and entered the tomb (24:2). Whereupon, they were frightened, and Luke says, “the women bowed down” (24:5). The two men questioned them about why they were looking for the living among the dead (24:5). Again, one observes the use of the word Galilee in the course of the conversation by the two men:
“He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee” (24:6). It was not just the apostles that Jesus told about His impending death while in Galilee—women were included. The expressions from Galilee and in Galilee are important in trying to ascertain whether or not women were included in the command to witness to others about the how of salvation.
Can one in his or her wildest imagination edit out the women from “those with them”? The women play a major role in this section of Scripture (see also Acts 1:12-15). Jesus appears to His disciples. Should one limit the word disciple only to the male species? Surely not! There is no evidence to uphold that the word disciple refers only to males. Suddenly Jesus stood among them (both men and women). Still there was unbelief on the part of the disciples. He told them to look at His hands and His feet in order to prove that He was not a ghost, for a ghost does not have flesh and bones (24:37-41). After that, He opened their minds so they could understand what the prophets had earlier spoken of (24:47). He then informed those present (both men and women) that they were to be “witnesses of all these things” (24:48)
At that time, Jesus let them know that He would send the promise of His Father upon each of them (24:40). But they were instructed to wait in Jerusalem until they were clothed with this power from on high (24:49). Did the Eleven and the other disciples, which included women, understand that they were all to wait in Jerusalem for this outpouring of God’s Spirit upon both men and women? Yes! As stated above, the first chapter of Acts reveals that there were one hundred and twenty who were gathered in Jerusalem waiting for the events to transpire (Acts 1:15)...Once more, if the women were not included, one wonders why Peter did not say so. In fact, he cited the prophet Joel to show that Joel had previously foretold the phenomenon that they were now witnessingThen Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These men (ou|toi Joutoi) are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: “17 ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream 18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’..
” (Joel 2:14-21)...In Acts 2:1, Luke writes: “When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.”.. On the Day of Pentecost, the outpouring of the Spirit is generally limited to the Twelve among many interpreters of the Word, but, according to Peter, the outpouring of the Spirit was upon the one hundred and twenty:When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues..a as the Spirit enabled them (Acts 2:1-4). Mostly copied from a paper I have...do not have time to look up the author...but mostly Bible quotes)


And neither do you "look up" their flawed claims - for they have been shown to be in error over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over !



Back in a little bit !
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Last edited by rdp; 02-06-2014 at 05:04 PM.
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  #924  
Old 02-06-2014, 06:04 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by rdp View Post
Yea' - And?? That's the whole point - Women in the church are not to be "teachers-preachers" to men in the church. I am honestly a bit confused as to specifically what you're suggesting?
The problem is you believe I am suggesting something.

I usually say what I mean when I want to say it. Im just addressing some of the things people here have said that sound fishy..

The whole gender of noun things and that preaching and teaching are the same things.
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #925  
Old 02-06-2014, 06:20 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Im not sure the Women should only win Women deal is practical. Imagine going out door knocking.

Man opens the door

Woman"Sir? Is the Lady of the house home?"

Man: "It's jut me?"

Woman: "Never mind..." woman walks away



Complete straw-man - This is NOT the scenario I'm discussing & you know it . I am talking about a saved woman in the church giving home-Bible studies to an unsaved-sinner man on a continual basis - & not merely handing a man a tract or inviting a man to church as you've described above.

We don't read minds. You may need to become a better communicator. Not that I agree with his theology but try listening to what Dr White says...he communicates with others very well, very clearly.

Can a woman preach the gospel to a man though? Out on the street or at his door? Not talking about bible studies



Silly objection....Next....


Communication



They were doing two things, they were teaching AND Preaching...at least that is what your verses say.


Are you suggesting (with a straight face) that teaching is not "preaching"?? Do church members not need "preaching" ?

I've been very clear. Teaching and Preaching are two different things. Teaching isn't reading one verse then yelling for 40 min. Preaching isn't sitting down for a bible study and showing people what the bible teaches.

Can the words or topics over lap? Sure. But most of the verses you presented uses the words distinctly



As Per the quote, Preaching is mostly in regards to unbelievers.


This is simply an outlet (weasel) word Prax. Again, I'm asking you if you're seriously suggesting that believers do not need "preaching"?

It's simply what that article says and we can see from it's use as well..who needs the gospel? Sinners.



When they become believers in the gospel, they want to learn and be taught
Have fun
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #926  
Old 02-06-2014, 06:29 PM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Have fun
LOL
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  #927  
Old 02-06-2014, 06:29 PM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by rdp View Post
And neither do you "look up" their flawed claims - for they have been shown to be in error over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over !



Back in a little bit !
Don't hurry!
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  #928  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:18 PM
Pliny Pliny is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
So, yes or no. Can women preach? I'm not saying lead a church or congregation or anything else.
To other women.
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  #929  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:32 PM
Pliny Pliny is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
I agree that deacons are servant. Truly, that's what we all are, servants to the service of Christ. Some people want to believe that a servant is someone who is scum on the bottom of their shoes, like a slave, someone beneath them.

I'm just wondering something. What 'scriptures' were the NT churches preaching on, considering they were living in the NT time and no NT scripture had yet been written? I see where preaching was done based on things Jesus taught and instructions by the apostles to the churches, but what scriptures were preached in the NT?
The early church used the OT. Most used the LXX (Septuagint). As the Apostles began writing those letters were passed around and read. Here are a couple examples:
(Col 4:16 KJV) And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

(1Th 5:27 KJV) I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.


Also, Peter speaks of Paul's writing with the assumption that everyone recognizes those writings as scripture:
(2Pe 3:16 KJV) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


So, As mentioned above, the Bible they used was the OT. I could bring multiple examples that show that such as the Ethiopian Eunich, but I think there will be agreement with this. As the Apostles began writing they were accepted as scripture.
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  #930  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:37 PM
Pliny Pliny is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
some people have such far out ideas....they are so afriad a woman might win a soul...
And this is a silly post considering no one has said that. I guess we know who is "far out". As has been mentioned multiple times - All are to work in the harvest but not all are Pastors. Biblical qualifications demand a man like it or not, it is Bible. This has been said multiple times in multiple ways so I must wonder why you would persist in fabricating something that is incorrect.
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