The OT saints apparent disadvantage

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by coksiw

When it comes to the work of the Spirit, I notice that people put a tremendous emphasis on only one of the "how" that happens. The one people put emphasis on is the fact that God works on us the will and the do for his good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).

People put little value in the other "how" that happens, which is by the spiritual gifts and the ministry gifts within the assembly.


It could be the result of the culture: individualism, and church services setup in a way that gives little chance to the assembly's gift to operate.

Actually, the "how" of him working in us so that we will and do of his good pleasure is referring to the effects of regeneration by the indwelling Spirit, God's holy character influencing and changing us.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Actually, the "how" of him working in us so that we will and do of his good pleasure is referring to the effects of regeneration by the indwelling Spirit, God's holy character influencing and changing us.

Yes, but it is not the only way. The message of God to you, that comes through the Scriptures preached, taught, also through prophetic gifts, words of wisdom, words of faith, even miracles, all of that, causes you to walk in the right direction. You need the body of Christ operating in the Spirit. Again, I think the current church culture of how to conduct services, and fellowship, and clergy elitism, could be hindering this operation to be more abundant and clear.
I think personal experience affects interpretation.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Yes, but it is not the only way. The message of God to you, that comes through the Scriptures preached, taught, also through prophetic gifts, words of wisdom, words of faith, even miracles, all of that, causes you to walk in the right direction. You need the body of Christ operating in the Spirit. Again, I think the current church culture of how to conduct services, and fellowship, and clergy elitism, could be hindering this operation to be more abundant and clear.
I think personal experience affects interpretation.

I did have the experience in the past of being in a group where the gifts of the Spirit were distributed among people in operated amazingly for mutual edification. I remember then, after having that experience for so long, going to Church, and feeling the constraint so badly. The preacher-centered service, the loud music during prayer after preaching, etc...

I tried to reproduce what I had before in my house during COVID, and we had some powerful gatherings . We had teaching, prophetic words, moves of God, edifying our understanding, correcting us, and coming from different ways during the meeting, not just "the preacher".

Anyways, I don't want to turn the thread into something else. I'll stop here on this topic .

[Esaias]

I wouldn't say the new covenant provides the Spirit guiding into obedience and the old covenant didn't have that. We already established the truth of that at the beginning.

What I would say though is that the old covenant did not produce a NATION of obedient people, and the new covenant is given as a remedy for THAT. Also, mere judicial righteousness is not enough:

Mark 10:17-21 KJV
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. [19] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. [20] And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. [21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

One must follow Christ, acknowledging Messiah, becoming His disciple, being conformed to His image. Obedience to the ethical demands of God is a baseline, not a pinnacle.

I'll review the other things you posted and respond later.