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Old 06-22-2011, 04:35 AM
Truth Files Truth Files is offline
Stephen


 
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Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

There are those today who are debunking a Muslim beast "antichrist"

"The whole concept of an Islam Antichrist is fantasy" : Don Koenig

The Islamic beast in the Middle East is Abaddon-Apollyon, the fallen angelic king of the abyss noted in Revelation's unfolding who rules 7 Middle Eastern kingdoms for Satan presented in the scope of the prophetic visions of the past and future [Revelation 13:1-4; 17:8-14]

Who is this beast of Satanís choice clothed in a human kingís body and where he will confederate his Middle Eastern kingdom at the end of this present age according to the Lordís revealing by His prophets of the Bible?

There are three entities intertwined in this first beast of Revelationís unfolding that must be recognized in order to understand the make up

Satan, Abaddon [a fallen angerlic like Satan], and the human little horn of Danielís visions [a future king of the northern Middle East] will compose this never before manifesting that will astound the unbelieving world during the Lordís coming period of tribulation and wrath to punish them for their refusal to believe the truth about Him [2Thessalonians 2:8-12]

This beast will be the concoction of Satanís bidding to usurp the Lord and to prevent the coming of the Lordís millennial kingdom on the earth [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27 [the other prince] ; 11:36-45; 12:7] Revelation 9:1; 9:11; 11:7; 12:6-9; 12:12; 12:6-14; 13:1-4; 14:9-11; 16:1-16; 17:8-14; 17:16-18; 19:11-21; 20:1-3]

Ezekielís vision of the invasion of Israel at the middle of the coming 70th week decreed and the resultant battle of Armageddon 42 months later [1260 days] identifies Satan as the one [gog] who will stage this setting on the earth by the Lordís drawing at the time of the end [Ezekiel 38:17]

Ezekiel is to set his face against Satan [gog] .... against the ancient land of Magog, Meshech and Tubal which is still there today .... and inhabited by the same Assyrian/Babylonian populations who are the Muslims of the Middle East [see my article "Middle Eastern Culture"]

Satan was the "chief" [rosh] angelic prince of these ancient post flood land settlements and still is today; the land where his beast in the little horn will rise at the time of the end of this presentage [the upper Tigris River basin of the northern Middle East proper at the convergence of the modern states of Syria [put], Turkey [togarmah], Iraq [cush] , and Iran [gomer [north]/persia [south]

The beast and the little horn are not noted in the vision, but they are the ones who will carry out Satanís design against Israel which will at first succeed [Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 11:2; 13:5], but will end in abject failure by the Lordís direct intervention [Ezekiel 38:18-23; 39:1-29]; Satanís entire strategy will fail with his beast destroyed in the Lordís lake of fire, and the little horn and his human followers killed and buried at Armageddon [Joel 2:20; 3:9-17; Zechariah 14:Revelation 19: 11-21]

It is Satan who view's Israel as being protected by the Lord against the nationís ancient enemies of the Middle East round about and he will attempt to eliminate Israel through his beast, the little horn, and their human followers [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36:2-7; 36:36; 38:10-12; 38:14-16; Zechariah 12:2-3; ]

Those who attack Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed with include the inner core [Psalms 83] and the outer core [Ezekiel 38] which contains the adherents of the Islamic Middle East; the inner core will be joined by the outer core through the rising of the little horn [the Assyrian of Micah 5:5-6]

A remnant part of Israel has returned to the land as of recent just as the prophetic scriptures predict and living in the very setting with the Lordís protection today, and in place for Ezekielís vision to be fulfilled; the tiny nation is living permanently and in confidence with the obvious protection of the Lordís intent [Ezekiel 36:1-7; 36:7-28]

He is at the same time going to pressure Israel for a believing remnant part to turn to Him by allowing Satan to gain a partial and temporary victory [Jeremiah 30; Daniel 12:1; Micah 5:5-6; 5:7-15; Daniel 9:26-27 [the other prince]; 11:40; 12:7; Zechariah 13:8-9; 14:2-5; Matthew 24:6-44; Luke 21:20-36; Romans 11:25-36; Revelation 11:2; 12:6; 12:14-17]

There are those today who say that Satanís beast will not originate from the populations of Islam in the Middle East because these are stuck in the aged traditional interpretations of Bible prophecy of general reformation theology whose interpreters did not fully understand the prophetic scriptures [some of these were severely lacking and motivated by proprietary objectives]

Some noted and visible prophecy teachers of today attempt to hold on to their ideas of a western ďanti-christĒ who will rise in a revived European [ancient Roman] setting when the prophetic scriptures do not support it [Hal Lindsey; Jack Kinsella, Terry James; Todd Strandberg; David Regan; Don Koenig; Bill Salus; Doug Krieger; Sean Osborne]

The list is much longer, but these are well known, have written books, and are recognized on a number of theological message boards that appear on the Internet

The current teaching is that Israel will be attacked by the surrounding populations of Islam led by Russia and the attackers will go down in utter defeat thereby creating a greater Israel by territorial gain and that this setting is necessary for Israel to live in peace in the Middle East either before the 70th week decreed for the nation or during the same

This position is taken in order to protect their pre-positions with regard to a revived Roman Empire as the base of the rising of Satanís beast, when in fact the prophetic scriptures tell a very different setting

Here are the failures of this theology either by the adding of speculations, misinterpretations, and or outright omission of biblical truth with regard to the related exegesis of end time prophecy:

Satanís beast is not human and was not operating during the ancient Roman period and still is waiting for his release from the abyss; reformation theology has not discovered this truth; this entity will be far different that any ordinary human king of the past with powers vastly exceeding those of any; and he will not need the ordinary human invention of military might from his Islamic kingdom

Satan is addressed as gog in Ezekiel 38; 39; gog is not a human Russian confederator who unites the current adherents of Islam in an attack upon Israel with the same going down in defeat together

Satan is the god of this present world and the one who will be worshiped by the adherents of Islam in the Middle East through his beast in the little horn; Islam worships a false [fictitious] god called ďAllahĒ, but there is no such being, Satan is the one who hides under this covering

There are no unfulfilled events contained in the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets outside of the coming 70th week decreed for Israel and beyond [the visions are silent between the ending of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week still pending; arbitrarily placing events like Psalms 83 before the 70th week is not supported by the visions, and neither is there a Roman presence in the visions

The people of the prince that shall come [the beast in the little horn] will be his followers at the time of the end and not the Romans of 70 A.D.; 70 AD was not the time of the end and is not recorded in the scope of the prophetic visions

Confirmation of the covenant that the Lord has with His nation of Israel presented in Daniel 9 is not some sort of peace treaty between the ďanti-christĒ and Israel; this beast will be a war monger from his rising at the beginning of the 70th week, and he will be about to destroy the "great city" of western civilization, conquer the Middle East including Israel, and to fend off all opposition from other nations

It is the Lord [the first "He" of 9:27] who will confirm the covenant for a believing remnant part of Israel during the coming 70th week and the only one who can do this; the other prince [the beast in the little horn] [the second "he" of 9:27] cannot and will not do this, but he will come to desecrate

Careful reading of Daniel 9:26-27 will reveal a repeating of 9:26 giving the actions of both princes in 9:27

There will not be a time of ďpeaceĒ for Israel before the Lord brings it after the battle of Armageddon; Israelís current position of a protected nation will continue until the middle of the coming 70th week decreed; and there will not be 1260 days of "peace" during the first half of the 70th week decreed for Israel [this will be the time of the beast's rising and conquering [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9; 11:36-44], and to then rule for 42 months during the next 1260 days]

Danielís visions related to the beastís followers and kingdom are all Middle Eastern based, not western Europe; the image in chapter 2 is all Middle Eastern from the head to the feet; the 4th kingdom presented in Daniel 7 is the final form of this kingdom .... Revelation confirms this [Revelation 13:1-4 presents the symbols of the leopard, bear, and lion kingdoms of the ancient Middle East .... all populated by the same Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo/Persian, and Turkoman cultures that still inhabit the region today]

All of the visions of the prophets move from the ending of the beast's rule over Syrio/Babylonia just before the first century to the time of the end of this present age .... there is nothing of earthly events recorded in the visions between

Israelís greater expansion will not take place as the result of a war involving Russia and the nationís Islamic enemies either before or during the 70th week decreed, but only after the Lordís victory at Armageddon [Russia will be a victim of the little horn and vanquished by him]

If you are looking for this setting in the Middle East to take place before the end of the 70th week you will not see it

If you are looking for a sham peace treaty that will set off the events of the 70th week [same as the coming tribulation period] you will not see this

If you are looking for a re-built temple of the Lordís on the temple mount either before or during the 70th week you will not see this; His temple will not be built until after for his millennial kingdom on the earth

The Lordís ďsnatchingĒ [harpazo] of His church and the ensuing period of His wrath will come with no warning and no obvious signs; all of this could begin before this day is over

The individuals named above do have the truth regarding the Lordís pre-tribulation ďraptureĒ of His church, but their presentation of the same has flaws that draw attack from preterist [historical] and post-tribulation thinkers; at the same time they miss the undisputed evidence of this event given in Revelationís unfolding

Here are the flaws:

That the ďdepartureĒ of the church will remove the Lordís holy spirit from the earth

That this event is described as those ďtakenĒ while those rejected are ďleftĒ on the earth

That those who will ďescape all of these thingsĒ are the Lordís church noted in His discourse regarding national Israel during the 70th week

That the great multitude viewed in Revelation 7:9-17 is not the pre-tribulation church, but the martyrs of the tribulation

That the Lordís church of today is not seen in Revelation after chapter 3

Here is the proof of the Lordís pre-tribulation action to immortalize His church before His judgment that is missed by most pre-tribulation thinkers [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones]]
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1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:32 AM
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acerrak acerrak is offline
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

i have seen that there could be a muslim antichrist as they are looking for their messiah, as even they expect it, as does the jews still expect their messiah to come. also these countries are to wage war with israel.

and again there is no pre trib rapture. the ressurection and the catching of the saints is on the last day. even as mary stated to Jesus when discussing her brothers death to Jesus
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:34 AM
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

Why do you good brethren confuse ANTICHRIST with BEAST? Antichrist is a SPIRIT that denies Jesus is come in flesh. Antichrist possesses those who once knew truth but left it. How is that the beast in rev 13?
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:58 AM
Truth Files Truth Files is offline
Stephen


 
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

"Why do you good brethren confuse ANTICHRIST with BEAST? Antichrist is a SPIRIT that denies Jesus is come in flesh. Antichrist possesses those who once knew truth but left it. How is that the beast in rev 13?"

>This matter is a part of the OP and a very significant one

>Good question

>You can discover who the beast of Revelation is by reading the following scriptures [2Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-14]

You can also know that this beast is not human .... but his manifestation will be in the human little horn of Daniel's visions [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27; 11:36-45; 12:7]
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1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

Last edited by Truth Files; 06-22-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:10 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth Files View Post
"Why do you good brethren confuse ANTICHRIST with BEAST? Antichrist is a SPIRIT that denies Jesus is come in flesh. Antichrist possesses those who once knew truth but left it. How is that the beast in rev 13?"

>This matter is a part of the OP and a very significant one

>Good question

>You can discover who the beast of Revelation is by reading the following scriptures [2Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-14]

You can also know that this beast is not human .... but his manifestation will be in the human little horn of Daniel's visions [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27; 11:36-45; 12:7]
You repeatedly say OP. What is OP?

Also there is no connection between the son of perdition in 2 Thess 2 and the beast of Rev 13,. That is assumed. 2 Thess 1 said the events would take place as vengeance against those who directly persecuted the Thessalonians IN THEIR DAY 2000 years ago. How can that apply to today as vengeance for THEM?
2 Thess 1:4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
This coming is the MATT 21:40 COMING as is Matt 24, which was addressed as being experienced by the people who stood there listening to Jesus.

So, again, why use the term ANTICHRIST from 1 John and 2 John when it what John said about antichrist has no bearing on the Beast or son of perdition?

What is it about these words of JOHN that apply to the beast of Rev 13?

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come (ref. 1 John 4:3 -- a SPIRIT), even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come (Ref: 1 John 2:18); and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Thanks!
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"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 06-23-2011 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Truth Files Truth Files is offline
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

"OP" is brevity for the Original Post [in this case ..... mine]

I would dialogue with you, but I will say this again .... your brand of replacement theology and all that it incorporates is simply too far away from my interpretation understanding of the prophetic scriptures and related

Really no need to discuss further .... I do answer reasonable questions and responses to my postings, but if I know the theology of anyone who responds in advance, I may not [I am familiar with most all of the variations of professing christianity]

And I will not generally respond to a composit response that includes the poster's body of theology .... one question or one comment at a time is acceptable so that confusion is not generated for those who look on

In your case I would suggest that you post your own ideas on new threads rather than attaching them to mine .... this is what I do for the purpose of conveying my discoveries .... I am not looking for debate and argumentation
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1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

Last edited by Truth Files; 06-23-2011 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:21 PM
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth Files View Post
"OP" is brevity for the Original Post [in this case ..... mine]

I would dialogue with you, but I will say this again .... your brand of replacement theology and all that it incorporates is simply to far away from my interpretation of the prophetic scriptures and related
I actually think it may be good for you to not dialogue with me since you are insisting I preach replacement theology when I have told you over and over again that this is not true. I teach Israel was meant to naturally move into the New Covenant, which it did since Romans 9 teaches not all Israel is Israel, and the believing Jews in Acts 2-9 show ISRAEL received the New Covenant while some disbelieved and were broken off, and Israel was the Church. God opened this church up to Gentiles as well. NOT replacing Israel. So I cannot trust you to be honest with my words if you cannot be honest with this issue.

Quote:
Really no need to discuss further .... I do answer reasonable questions and responses to my postings, but if I know the theology of anyone who responds in advance, I may not

And I will not generally respond to a composit response that includes the poster's body of theology .... one question or one comment at a time is acceptable so that confusion is not generated for thos who look on

In your case I would suggest that you post your own ideas on new threads rather than attaching them to mine
Sorry, it's a free forum! I will post so others may read my words in response to your thoughts.

God bless!
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:25 PM
Truth Files Truth Files is offline
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

Have a ball
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1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:33 PM
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

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Originally Posted by Truth Files View Post
Have a ball
I will!
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:36 PM
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Re: Flawed Interpretations of Reformation Theology

[See my post "The Building Blocks of Prophecy" in the forum section "Islamic Issues and News"]
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