lucifer

[pastorrick1959]

just wondering what yalls thought on ,the devil being in heaven or not.

i will post after i get a few responses

[SRM]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

just wondering what yalls thought on ,the devil being in heaven or not.

i will post after i get a few responses

http://www.realdevil.info/

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

just wondering what yalls thought on ,the devil being in heaven or not.

i will post after i get a few responses

he once was but was kicked out, i dont know if he can come and go.'(all the time)

In job when the angels presented themselves to the Lord he came with them.
for the purpose of accusing man.

So i dont know if he still does or not. i cant really asnswer that one at this time.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by SRM

http://www.realdevil.info/

what a terrible link

This means that Angels don't sin; that the death of Jesus overcame the power of sin within us; that there is nobody else to blame for sin apart from ourselves. The problem of the origin of evil is massive; so huge that many have taken a 10 cent answer to the million dollar question, blaming it on a legendary, fictional being. But the Bible is silent as to the existence of such a being.

i wouldnt recommend that at all. its filled with unbiblical truths from just reading this.

john 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

that book just called Jesus a liar.


ezekiel 28:14,15
You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones
You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.


How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

isaiah 14:12,13
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

When Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, one third of all the angels were cast out with him. (Rev.12:4,9)

Revelation 12:4-9 (King James Version) "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

(5) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

(6)And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

(7)And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (8)And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

(9)And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Lucifer became Satan, and the fallen angels became Demons.


Its hard to have a battle in heaven with a imaginary fictional being, just saying.

[mfblume]

Rev 12 is traditionally thought to show what happened when satan fell from heaven, but it is not concretely proved to be talking about that. This could solely refer to the point much later around the time when Christ was born and later when he ascended and war in heaven broke out in synch with the events of the first century when I believe most of Revelation was fulfilled. And 1/3 of the stars falling does not concretely mean 1/3 of the angels became demons. People assume it means that but he context does not actually say that. We do know Jesus saw satan fall like lightning from Heaven. People ASSUME Isa 14 is speaking about that when Lucifer is said to be fallen from heaven. Scholars claim Lucifer was a Babylonian human being.

So many assumptions and theories. I believe he fell from Heaven and I lean towards Lucifer being satan. Demons are not human spirits created by God who died before Adam was created, but angels who lost their first estate. IMHO.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Rev 12 is traditionally thought to show what happened when satan fell from heaven, but it is not concretely proved to be talking about that. This could solely refer to the point much later around the time when Christ was born and later when he ascended and war in heaven broke out in synch with the events of the first century when I believe most of Revelation was fulfilled. And 1/3 of the stars falling does not concretely mean 1/3 of the angels became demons. People assume it means that but he context does not actually say that. We do know Jesus saw satan fall like lightning from Heaven. People ASSUME Isa 14 is speaking about that when Lucifer is said to be fallen from heaven. Scholars claim Lucifer was a Babylonian human being.

So many assumptions and theories. I believe he fell from Heaven and I lean towards Lucifer being satan. Demons are not human spirits created by God who died before Adam was created, but angels who lost their first estate. IMHO.

That's how I understand it also.

[Sam]

This pdf file is based on a chart Bro. S.G. Norris used for teaching on satan.
I don't know if you will be able t see it or not.
Some times pdf files cannot be accessed in some of my posts.
You may have to download it to read it.

[Nitehawk013]

"Lucifer" doesn't exist. The proper name Lucifer isn't in the oldest of biblical writings. It is a proper name created by combining the Latin words Lucem and Ferre and means light bearer. If Isaiah was written in Hebrew, why do we accept that the obviously much later added LATIN words combined into a proper name is a real name of a fallen angel?

Satan is real, but he is not Lucifer. In fact Is.14 tells us in the very beginning who it is telling us about, and it isn't a fallen angel. It is a Babylonian king.

[Aquila]

Another passage about Lucifer....

Ezekiel 28:12-19
12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Many things ascribed to this "king of Tyrus" are beyond that of a human king. He was in Eden, the garden of God (of ancient origin). Being the anointed cherib that covers the presence of God. Being on the holy mountain of God and going forth, walking up and done among the stars, etc.

In Isaiah 14 we read:

Isaiah 14:4-15
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

In both cases the prophets are addressing not only a human king... but the "spirit" of Satan residing in that human king. These kings were "full of the devil", possessed of Satan. Therefore the prophecy wasn't merely addressing them as human beings, but the spirit of Satan within them.

We see Satan assume possession of Judas. We see him enfluencing Peter. We see him beguile Ananias and Saphira in the book of Acts. We see him possess fallen saints of God who begin opposing the Gospel.

In each case Satan is at work... as with these human kings. We glean the history of Satan from these prophecies. Many critical scholars believe that these prophecies merely address human kings. I don't see it as being so. The king of Tyrus wasn't "in Eden". However, the evil spirit possessing him was.

I do believe in Satan, devils, demons, and unclean spirits. I also believe in spiritual warfare. However, I believe that a position of skepticism needs to be taken until the spirit manifests itself as being in operation. Don't go casting the devil out of every "bump in the night".

[mfblume]

Aquila, Ezekiel 28 may be about Adam.