Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infilling

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Just reading the opening of the thread...

Interesting questions and discussion. I’ll share my thoughts a bit later... But, I would like to ask a few questions as well... (sorry James Glen!)

1. Are there some reading here that believe only Oneness Pentecostals are (or have ever been for that matter) in the body of Christ?

2. Do you believe there are those who, though not in the body of Christ, are given Eternal Life by any other means. (For this question, let’s exclude the Old Testament contingency and infants/children etc.. Thanks!)

My answers:

1. No. I believe the body of Christ includes other Christians, including those who would never identify as Oneness Pentecostal.

2. I think no. I understand Jesus Christ to be the The Way.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

It’s interesting to me that the Holyghost just fell on them in Acts 2&10 following the gospel being preached to them. Some waiting in Acts 2, it just fell in Acts 10, but not really seeking the Holyghost or tongues...unlike “nowadays Pentecost”, we say we are not seeking tongues, but that is somewhat inaccurate since sometimes we don’t stop what we have deemed “praying folks through”(unlike Acts 2 &10)till we hear them speak in tongues, then we sort of back off, “that’s it!”. To say we don’t seek tongues, we just seek the Holyghost and tongues come, seems a little bit “dishonest”. We do seek the evidence of tongues whether we admit it or not.

Very true.

My observation is that:

Most Christians identifying as Charismatic or Pentecostal DO, or have, spoken in tongues, and it very often correlates with them receiving the Holy Spirit in their lives and life changing conversion.

Most Christians identifying as nonCharismatic or nonPentecostal DO NOT speak in tongues at the time of conversion and receiving the Holy Spirit in their lives with life changing conversion.

I know many in each category and have no reason to question the experience of either simply on the grounds of whether they speak in tongues.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jay

#1 I believe that anyone who has repented of their sins, baptized in the name of Jesus, and received the Holy Ghost are in the body. So while in our modern history, we are referred to as "Oneness Pentecostals", I believe that Christ has always had a church.

#2 Currently there is no salvation outside of Acts 2:38, which is the only response to the Gospel

Very good answer.

Which isn’t the answer of the Empire.
Which at this current time is at here decline.
Sir John Glubb in his book Fate of Empires explains, that one of the signs of an empire declining is wreaking of religion. Even though America is becoming post Christian. That Christianity becomes irrelevant. Where everyone that says Lord lord enters into the Kingdom of God. Kinda like have it your way at Burger King.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Telephone (n.)

1835, "system for conveying words over distance by musical notes" (devised in 1828 by French composer Jean-François Sudré (1787-1862); each tone played over several octaves represented a letter of the alphabet), from French téléphone (c. 1830), from télé- "far" (see tele-) + phone "sound, voice," from PIE root *bha- (2) "to speak, tell, say." Sudré's system never proved practical. Also used of other apparatus early 19c., including "instrument similar to a foghorn for signaling from ship to ship" (1844). The electrical communication tool was first described in modern form by Philip Reis (1861); developed by Scottish-born inventor Alexander Graham Bell (1847-1922) and so called by him from 1876.

Fo-nay

NOT phony!!

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Early Oneness Pentecostals were shy about this topic.

Haywood never had a policy or statement about this issue.

But, Morse and Bartleman had no problem ministering along with trinitarians.

Indeed.

I agree with the official stance taken by the Pentecostal Herald after the merger. Tolerance is good.
(See my tags at the bottom)

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Just reading the opening of the thread...

Interesting questions and discussion. I’ll share my thoughts a bit later... But, I would like to ask a few questions as well... (sorry James Glen!)

1. Are there some reading here that believe only Oneness Pentecostals are (or have ever been for that matter) in the body of Christ?

2. Do you believe there are those who, though not in the body of Christ, are given Eternal Life by any other means. (For this question, let’s exclude the Old Testament contingency and infants/children etc.. Thanks!)

1. If you are saying only oneness pentecostals as in, only Jesus name baptized filled with the spirit talking in tongues, monotheistic believers in the body of Christ then....yes.

2. Non holy ghost filled, non Jesus name baptized, non monotheist....no not in the body no not saved.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

1. If you are saying only oneness pentecostals as in, only Jesus name baptized filled with the spirit talking in tongues, monotheistic believers in the body of Christ then....yes.

2. Non holy ghost filled, non Jesus name baptized, non monotheist....no not in the body no not saved.

Are we rephrasing the questions here? Just asking.

When discussing the beliefs of others, it helps to remember it’s not your beliefs, nor your commentary that matters... it would be the confession and beliefs of said persons that matter...

So yes, I would agree, if someone rejects the Holy Spirit infilling, rejects the name of Jesus at baptism, and rejects the absolute Monotheism of Christianity, they by definition are not Christians and outside the body of Christ.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Nobody argues that Cornelius was unsaved before his encounter w Peter preaching Christ to him in Acts 10. Cornelius thought the good news was only for the Jews, then he found out it was for the gentiles as well. The argument lies in if receiving the Spirit evidenced by tongues was part of his salvation....part of his spiritual rebirth to which without it he was not born again nor saved.
I’m not arguing for or against...just sayin.



How and in what ways do u feel Cornelius was different on his “fruit” after he was Spirit filled evidenced w tongues?

I am not sure this matters...

There are Christians that are less conscientious than Cornelius was prior to becoming a Christian. That’s not commendable, but true nevertheless.

Cornelius was lacking in that he had NOT heard and fully accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ. When he heard and accepted he was no longer lacking.

[Michael The Disciple]

We know for sure there is an expected sign to bear witness one has the Holy Ghost. Acts 8 proves this. How did Phillip KNOW the Samaritans had NOT received the Holy Ghost?

Obviously there was a way to know. Phil KNEW they had not yet received the Spirit. He called for Peter and John because he KNEW they had not received.

The doctrine that one automatically receives the Spirit either at belief or belief and baptism is wrong.

One may say Acts 8 does not say what the sign was when the Spirit was received. True enough. However in other places such as Acts 2, 10, and 19 tongues are specifically mentioned.

Matter of fact except for prophesy that also came with tongues at Ephesus no other sign is shown initially following the Spirit baptism.

If we had one example of another sign bearing witness of the baptism I would be all in. I just cant find one.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

BIG difference between the two.

If tongues are just one of the signs, and not THE (initial) sign that always accompanies Spirit infilling, then the doctrine of “tongues as THE evidence” is false, is error.

It seems to me this is the line drawn in the sand regarding tongues- A sign or THE sign.


Without question in the book of Acts, tongues are atleast A sign, but are they ALWAYS THE sign, THE “proof”, THE evidence one is being Spirit filled?

If tongues are not THE sign, then there isn't any sign at all.

Some say, fruit of the Spirit. But those can take a long time to develop into fulness. So, we wait around for months or longer to see if someone can get their life together sufficiently so as to determine if they've received the Holy Spirit?

And how do we determine true fruits of the Spirit from people who are merely loving, patient, kind, and etc.?

Some say you can't call Jesus Lord except through the Holy Spirit. So, when someone confesses Jesus is Lord, that means they are filled. But Jesus said, "Why do you call me 'Lord' but don't do the things I say?". Confessions are of little use here. Throw in what He said in Matthew 7:22 and there's your nail in that coffin.

Some think all of Joel 2:28, prophesying, dreams, and etc. are indications of being filled with the Spirit. But that dog doesn't bark. King Saul prophesied while backslidden and afflicted by an evil spirit (1 Samuel 19:24). Caiaphas prophesied being High Priest, and caused Jesus to be murdered (John 11:51).

And as far as dreams go, I give you Pharoah, a Midianite, Nebuchadnezzar, and Pilate's Wife.

The only thing left is speaking with other tongues.