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  #71  
Old 05-07-2021, 09:53 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
Charles Ryrie wrote about soteriology across dispensations in his book Dispensationalism Today. But I no longer have a copy and it is not on google books.

He said certain features remain constant across dispensations.

Justification by faith, the importance of the blood, faith in God, the grace of God in action, etc.
I'm not a dispensationalist, so my use of the term was more generic, equivalent to "various times". I probably should have been more clear.

Small matter in the context of the thread, but just wanted to head off any misconceptions or possible debates about "dispensation A vs dispensation B" that would sidetrack the discussion into a Darby dumpster fire.
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  #72  
Old 05-07-2021, 02:55 PM
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

Point well taken. I do not focus on dispensations. Ryrie's idea came to mind.
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  #73  
Old 05-10-2021, 10:42 AM
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
Does the NT teach this concept ? Yes, we have a better covenant. Does God give more grace now than then ? What about during the other dispensations ?
Jeremiah 31 teaches that God would bring new covenant where the people would be able to continue in it, unlike the covenant from Sinai. And the way the new covenant would do this is by the law being written in the heart, which was not done under the old.

I wholeheartedly preach that without the Spirit in the New Covenant, no one was empowered to overcome sin whatsoever. The Spirit resting on people to prophesy is not the same thing.. I did not get my view from Bernard or any UPCI minister, but from prayerful study of Romans and Galatians.
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Last edited by mfblume; 05-10-2021 at 11:21 AM.
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  #74  
Old 05-10-2021, 09:21 PM
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post


Excellent points. This is a good thread.
Yes sir. That’s why I always come back now and then, so I can learn something
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  #75  
Old 05-11-2021, 09:23 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Jeremiah 31 teaches that God would bring new covenant where the people would be able to continue in it, unlike the covenant from Sinai. And the way the new covenant would do this is by the law being written in the heart, which was not done under the old.

I wholeheartedly preach that without the Spirit in the New Covenant, no one was empowered to overcome sin whatsoever. The Spirit resting on people to prophesy is not the same thing.. I did not get my view from Bernard or any UPCI minister, but from prayerful study of Romans and Galatians.
Amen. Throw Titus 3:5 in there as well...

"He saved us BY washing of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Ghost which he poured out abundantly on us through Jesus Christ."

OT Saints simply did not have this experience.

Last edited by Originalist; 05-11-2021 at 10:29 AM.
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  #76  
Old 05-11-2021, 10:13 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

This is an interesting thread. I wouldn’t comment on it at first for fear of derailing it or at least distracting from the good commentary. Now that it is slowing down, I’d like to say something.

It is my belief that the blood of Christ is what remits sin for the OT saints as well as we NT saints. I’d like to see some discussion on this. It seems that there is not much said about the similarities, or the differences. We certainly have a new superior covenant, but some things are similar as well.

Thoughts?
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  #77  
Old 05-11-2021, 10:32 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
This is an interesting thread. I wouldn’t comment on it at first for fear of derailing it or at least distracting from the good commentary. Now that it is slowing down, I’d like to say something.

It is my belief that the blood of Christ is what remits sin for the OT saints as well as we NT saints. I’d like to see some discussion on this. It seems that there is not much said about the similarities, or the differences. We certainly have a new superior covenant, but some things are similar as well.

Thoughts?
The blood of Christ is the LEGAL means by which God can forgive our sins can regenerate us by his Spirit. But the actual regeneration by the Spirit is a New Covenant experience with no counterpart in the Old Testament.
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  #78  
Old 05-11-2021, 10:35 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
The blood of Christ is the LEGAL means by which God can forgive our sins can regenerate us by his Spirit. But the actual regeneration by the Spirit is a New Covenant experience with no counterpart in the Old Testament.
Fair enough. But I’m specifically thinking of the remission of sins for the OT saints. What about that?

How were they “made righteous”? How were they granted full remission of sins?
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  #79  
Old 05-11-2021, 10:57 AM
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Fair enough. But I’m specifically thinking of the remission of sins for the OT saints. What about that?

How were they “made righteous”? How were they granted full remission of sins?

Did Christ not descend into Hell to preach to those who died in faith? His descent occurred after His death so the sacrifice was made...


Is it possible that the faith they had in life for a Messiah yet to come activated their salvation even after death after His crucifixion?
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  #80  
Old 05-11-2021, 11:50 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: The OT saints apparent disadvantage

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Did Christ not descend into Hell to preach to those who died in faith? His descent occurred after His death so the sacrifice was made...
I wouldn’t think so. Maybe I’m not sure what you’re meaning is but I don’t believe the OT saints were in hell.

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Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
Is it possible that the faith they had in life for a Messiah yet to come activated their salvation even after death after His crucifixion?

I like this portion. I believe it is at least partially true. I still believe that they were only granted remission of sins through the blood of Christ.

In condensed form:

The blood sacrifice of animals did not have the power to remit sin. It could only delay the consequences or roll them ahead for another year. Next year the same process would begin all over. Because . . .

Heb.10

[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Only the blood of Jesus can remit sins. The other blood was a temporary fix. So, for them to have eternal forgiveness Christ’s blood has to settle the account.

Don’t you think?
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