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  #11  
Old 05-04-2020, 02:44 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

Good stuff! Yes, come back and add more!
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2020, 04:06 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

Quote:
On the day of Pentecost the Body of Christ came back into the world.

Remember, the sonship is about the body inhabited by the Spirit of the Father, who is Jesus.
And that body is in heaven as a man glorified and filled with the Spirit of the Father.

Quote:

Jesus came back on the day of Pentecost folks, He fulfilled Acts 1.
He came back in the form of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost CAME DOWN from heaven, a BODDY DID NOT COME DOWN. The filling for the body of believers CAME DOWN.

You are speaking incorrectly and confusing entire concepts of body and Spirit when you say THE BODY CAME BACK. In order for the body to come back, the body, the CONTAINER of the SPIRIT, had to leave and the container had to return. This means the container was in heaven between the Ascension and the day of Pentecost. ANd now you are confusing your won beliefs with your disbeliefs.

To have the CONTAINER come back means the CONTAINER as in heaven.

But to see the church BEGIN to be the body of Christ on the day of Pentecost is not the CONTAINER/BODY coming back.

Your concepts are not consistent, because on one hand, you say the BODY was never in heaven, because you claim that that would not be oneness (however in the world that makes sense), but yet you say the "BODY" CAME BACK demanding that the body was in heaven!

No, the BODY did not come back. The Lord Jesus came back IN THE FORM OF THE HOLY GHOST. NOT AS SON.

SONS of God are people with the SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM. And the BODY is always connected to the SON just as Jesus is and we are. WE BOTH have human containers housing God's Spirit.

So, you are going toward bizarre thinking now.

Quote:

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus fulfilled this at that time
No, he did not, and if he did then you just contradicted yourself. Once again, THAT demands that the body that left the world EXISTED IN HEAVEN AS A MAN for a time being between the ascension and Day of Pemntecost which was a bout a WEEK. So, you have a MAN IN HEAVEN fora week!

Quote:
, also He fulfilled John 14.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Amen. That is the DEITY in Jesus while on earth speaking as the Holy Ghost, and HE CAME BACK AS THAT SPIRIT, NOT AS THE SON NOR THE BODY. He filled people to MAKE THEM INTO THE BODY, but that is not the BODY COMING BACK.

Quote:

On the Day of Pentecost we see this fulfilled.

Even David Bernard believes this as he mentions this in the book, the Oneness of God.
He does not believe that the "BODY" WENT TO HEAVEN STAYED IN HEAVEN AND THEN CAME BACK TO EARTH on the day of Pentecost.

You not only twisted the bible but you twisted Bro Bernard's words, too.

More to come!
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2020, 04:15 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Lets view the verses that call the church the Body of Christ. Remember, there is no mystical body of Christ, there is just the body of Christ.
Before you do this, let me just point out that the CHURCH is called the body of Christ because of a marriage relationship like Adam and Eve.

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Evidently, it's still a mystery to your viewpoint.

So, as CHRIST Is the HEAD and we are the BODY, a man is head of his wife and she is of his body. Does that mean a husband HAS NO BODY OF HIS OWN apart from his wife? Of course not.

You are not considering all of the reasons that the church is called the body. You're only thinking of containers of HIs Spirit.

Quote:
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Both Jews and Gentiles are born into the same body.
Amen.

Quote:
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

In Collossians we see Paul call the Church the Body of Christ.

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
But, again, that does not mean Jesus does not have his own personal human body still. The body of Christ is also due to the MARRIAGE of the group of people to the Lord. AND IT IS a mystical body, whether or not Jesus has a body in heaven or not, because MYSTICAL means it is a group of people who corporately are one. So, you are also not aware of what the term mystical means in this context.
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Last edited by mfblume; 05-04-2020 at 04:19 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:12 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Then of course we need to ask, "Who is Jesus in Heaven?"

When we refer to Jesus are we talking about God? Are we talking about a man on the right hand of God? Just who do you think Jesus is in Heaven?
To answer this question, ask yourself who was the one called Jesus when He walked the earth between the incarnation and the ascension?

ONENESS teaches that Jesus was the MAN who submitted His will to the Father, as well as the Father to WHOM the man prayed. He is one person who is both MAN and GOD at the same time. While He filled the universe as GOD, He simultaneously manifested Himself in flesh on the earth as a man. JESUS is the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Jesus was not a man who was physically beside God while He was on the earth. God is everywhere. You cannot get beside GOD in Heaven or earth.

So, with the MAN on earth being Jesus while at the same time Jesus was GOD who is everywhere, the MAN in Heaven after He ascended is Jesus at the same time He is GOD who is everywhere. The MAN could not be BESIDE God in Heaven any more than he could be beside God on earth. He was and is not and never shall be BESIDE God. You cannot get BESIDE an omnipresent Spirit.

Quote:
This is the amazing thing about the so called oneness folks in the Midwest. They go back to almost the trinitarian mindset for a minute of thinking Jesus in on the right hand of God the Father, literally!
I do not know who you are talking about when you refer to the MIDWEST all the time. What is it with this MIDWEST reference? You better include ALL CANADA because ALL Canadian oneness people whom I know believe what I believe. Your view is BY FAR THE MINORITY amongst Oneness. And the devil would LOVE for no man to be ruling earth from heaven now. He was always afraid of MAN ruling the world.

I NEVER heard of ANY oneness person who thinks the RIGHT HAND means a place BESIDE another. RIGHT HAND means POWER. God's RIGHT HAND opened up the Red Sea.

NO ONE IN ALL OF CANADA, where I live, who is Oneness has ever proposed that Jesus is NOT IN HEAVEN as a glorified man while at the same time is the omnipresent Spirit of deity. Thankfully, Canada does not have that error that THE MAN Jesus does not exist any more.

Quote:
They make the comment that in the spiritual dimension, (Heaven) that there is a man, Jesus the Christ, standing somewhere, or maybe sitting, on the right hand of God the Father!
They DO NOT MEAN "right side". You made up this accusation because I have been oneness for almost 50 years and have NEVER heard of a SINGLE oneness person ever saying that RIGHT HAND means that Jesus as SON is sitting on the right hand of the Father as if that meant PHYSICALLY BESIDE HIS RIGHT SIDE. It means HE IS ON THE THRONE.

RIGHT HAND =THRONE, POWER.

I think you are absolutely confused about what they mean by right hand, since they actually mean the place of Power, like a business owner's right-hand man. That does not mean the man sits at the owners' right side! RIGHT HAND means POWER. Just replace the words "RIGHT HAND" with the word "POWER". The MAN sits at the Father's place of POWER. This means the Father's POWER works through that man.

Quote:

But then will say that Jesus is God, but then turn around and argue that Jesus is really sitting on the right hand of God....
THE MAN ascended up into Heaven and is NOT BESIDE ANYONE. He is a glorified man with the power of God the Father workng through Him over the earth. Just like the man was on earth and the POWER OF THE FATHER worked through Him to do everything that He did, the FATHER is STILL working through Him as He rules this world from heaven. He is not SITTING BESIDE the Father. That's not what sitting at the right hand means. It means HE IS THERE with the power of the FATHER inside Him and working through Him to rule HIs kingdom!

Quote:
Again, we ask... Who is Jesus in the spiritual dimension?
He is both the glorified MAN and GOD ALMIGHTY at the same time.

Quote:
Paul asked God who he was …

Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Paul knew there was only one God and he asked God who he was!!!

God answered and said... I am Jesus!
Yeah, so what? That was the same thing as Thomas falling on his knees and looking at Jesus and saying, "My God."


Quote:
We know now who Jesus is in the spiritual dimension! Jesus is God! God is Jesus!
AND HE IS MAN AS WELL.

Quote:

In the Spiritual realm, we know that Jesus is God Almighty!
AND as man!

Quote:

But wait, for those who believe in the physical body of Jesus, floating around in the spiritual dimension, that that is Jesus sitting on the right hand of ….. Jesus?
Again... I personally told you this before and you simply ARE NOT READING! Sitting at the RIGHT HAND does not mean SITTING BESIDE.

God is everywhere! Not JUST Heaven. EVERYWHERE. He fills heaven at the same time he fills the physical universe. DID YOU READ THAT THIS TIME? You cannot get BESIDE HIM. You CANNOT get on his right side, his felt side, his front, or his back. HE IS EVERYWHERE. Being by the RIGHT HAND means used by God with GOD'S POWER.

Quote:

They will argue that it worked on this earth so it must work in Heaven!!! Ridiculous!! Heaven is the spiritual dimension.
So what? How is that an explanation that it cannot be in heaven as it was on earth? What is that supposed to add to the conversation?

I told you this before as well....

SPIRITUAL DOES NOT MEAN NON-PHYSICAL.

SPIRITUAL means NOT NATURAL. It does NOT mean "not physical."

SPIRITUAL meat and drink and rock were all PHYSICAL things. WHICH I ALSO TOLD YOU BEFORE.

1 Corinthians 10:3-4.. And did all eat the same spiritual meat; ..(4).. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

SPIRITUAL MEAT: PHYSICAL MANNA
SPIRITUAL DRINK: PHYSICAL WATER
SPIRITUAL ROCK: PHYSICAL ROCK that Moses PHYSICALLY STRUCK.

Are there ANGELS in Heaven??

Yes.

WERE ANGELS PHYSICALLY SEEN AND TOUCHED?

Yes.

Could angels disappear and reappear?

Yes.

If they could appear physically and disappear, then they have BODIES. And Jesus, like them, is in heaven NOW, too. Why can ANGELS be physical and enter Heaven and JESUS CANNOT?

Quote:


Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Heaven is the spiritual dimension and the spiritual dimension is heaven.
SPIRITUAL DOES NOT MEAN NON-PHYSICAL.

Quote:

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Again we ask, Who is Jesus in the Spiritual dimension? He is God the Spirit because he is in the spiritual dimension.
Are angels GOD, too, because they are in the spiritual dimension? Are departs saints also GOD, too, because they went to heaven?

Quote:
The physical body of Christ is not needed in the spiritual dimension, it deals with the humanity. Humanity is for the earthly, the realm of the flesh.
The Physical body is STILL the container of the Father. And it remains physical because HE IS COMING BACK and we shall see Him and we shall reign n this earth just as Adam was meant to rule on earth.

What happened to the Plan of God for MAN to rule the world in your doctrine? What if man never sinned? Would he have died and gone to heaven?

No.

So, did God scrap his plan for man to rule on earth forever?

No. We shall see Jesus again with our eyes, and He will still be the TEMPLE of God's Spirit like we are, and we shall rule this world with him, as PHYSICAL Adam should have but failed. The only difference is that Jesus is not only the MAN in whom the Father dwells, but is also the Father.

Quote:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The humanity of the body is not for the spiritual realm.
There you go again thinking spiritual means NON-PHYSICAL.

Quote:
Therefore the same standard of "It worked for this earth so it must work for heaven does not stand!"

If you want the Body of Christ you must look at the church.
THE WIFE is the body of her husband because EVE was made from Adam's body, and therefore she completed Adam as A WHOLE when they came together in marriage, since HIS BODY PART returned to him. THAT is why a wife is the body of her husband and he is the head of that wife.

But the HUSBAND still has his own personal body of arms and legs.
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"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 05-04-2020 at 06:30 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2020, 09:35 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

The silence is deafening.
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2020, 11:41 AM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The silence is deafening.
The original thread in the debate section had these 5 posts, to which I responded here, time-stamped by our brother as follows.

Apr. 28, 2020
  • 8:30 p.m.
  • 8:53 p.m.
  • 8:58 p.m.
  • 9:05 p.m.
  • 9:19 p.m.

And then NOTHING for days and days.

So, we bring the chat here, and NOTHING for days and days.

I recall these chats:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJJ
Originally Posted by TJJJ View Post
Nicodemus, you are spitting in the wind with E and MB. They must have the literal body of Jesus up in Heaven so that they can satisfy the dispees.

I guess.
It is spitting in the wind to discuss doctrine with people like yourself who never explain anything, never answer questions, and never even try to make a scriptural case for their bizarre theories.
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Last edited by mfblume; 05-06-2020 at 11:46 AM.
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2020, 01:20 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

Esaias,

It makes me think the Catholics had somewhat of a point to keep the bible out of certain people's hands. They're dangerous with it! lol

Just kidding, of course. The risk is worth having the Bible, but some are so waaay off in their reading and comprehension that they should not be teaching others, for sure.
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Last edited by mfblume; 05-06-2020 at 01:32 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2020, 07:54 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

In him (presently) dwelleth all the fullness of Deity in bodily form. Col 2:9 was written many years after the ascension.

There IS one mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus. "There IS..." not "there was."
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Old 05-06-2020, 08:42 PM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Esaias,

It makes me think the Catholics had somewhat of a point to keep the bible out of certain people's hands. They're dangerous with it! lol

Just kidding, of course. The risk is worth having the Bible, but some are so waaay off in their reading and comprehension that they should not be teaching others, for sure.
I do not think it is a matter of being off in reading and comprehension, actually. I think it is more a matter of refusing to read and comprehend. They get an idea FIRST, then ignore the Scriptures that expose their error.

Remember, some of them mocked those who asked "Where does the Bible say that?" They don't need and don't want to be conformed to the Scriptures, because they follow made up ideas instead of God's Word.
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2020, 07:55 AM
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Re: For those who think Jesus is not a man any lon

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I do not think it is a matter of being off in reading and comprehension, actually. I think it is more a matter of refusing to read and comprehend. They get an idea FIRST, then ignore the Scriptures that expose their error.

Remember, some of them mocked those who asked "Where does the Bible say that?" They don't need and don't want to be conformed to the Scriptures, because they follow made up ideas instead of God's Word.
That does appear to be exactly what happened.
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