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  #61  
Old 02-15-2023, 12:59 PM
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votivesoul votivesoul is offline
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Re: Bott 2023

If a problem of any kind exists, it's a lot easier to blame an individual, than the group that produced the individual with the problem.

If you look at the world, and think it's screwed up and twisted, you might find yourself hopeless and ineffective, in that, you know you cannot fix the whole entire world.

But if you look at yourself, and think, I'm screwed up and twisted, you might find yourself hopeful and effective, in that, you know you can be fixed (at least it's a more likely proposition).

In that, again, it is a lot easier to point to the individual than it is to point to the group.

But sometimes, just sometimes, it's the group that's the problem, and the individual is the one with his or her head on straight. If so, it's up to that individual to try and help the group, if he or she can be received.

The point I'm trying to make here is:

If at BOTT, the leaders are advising therapies and counseling and help outside of the Kingdom of God, it might be time to admit that such advice is a confession that they don't got the goods to effectively help people with their manifold problems.

But that's a hard pill to swallow. It's just easier to point at individuals, or even at one's self. Because if the church is screwed up and twisted, how hopeless and ineffective do you suppose you'll be in fixing it?
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  #62  
Old 02-15-2023, 01:45 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Bott 2023

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
If a problem of any kind exists, it's a lot easier to blame an individual, than the group that produced the individual with the problem.

If you look at the world, and think it's screwed up and twisted, you might find yourself hopeless and ineffective, in that, you know you cannot fix the whole entire world.

But if you look at yourself, and think, I'm screwed up and twisted, you might find yourself hopeful and effective, in that, you know you can be fixed (at least it's a more likely proposition).

In that, again, it is a lot easier to point to the individual than it is to point to the group.

But sometimes, just sometimes, it's the group that's the problem, and the individual is the one with his or her head on straight. If so, it's up to that individual to try and help the group, if he or she can be received.

The point I'm trying to make here is:

If at BOTT, the leaders are advising therapies and counseling and help outside of the Kingdom of God, it might be time to admit that such advice is a confession that they don't got the goods to effectively help people with their manifold problems.

But that's a hard pill to swallow. It's just easier to point at individuals, or even at one's self. Because if the church is screwed up and twisted, how hopeless and ineffective do you suppose you'll be in fixing it?
Wow.

Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?
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  #63  
Old 02-15-2023, 02:07 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Bott 2023

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
Wow.

Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?
Let's pretend it's the middle of the 2nd century.

Think of all the traumas the average person would have undergone before becoming a Christian. Slavery, rape, beatings, war... Just to name a few.

And there were no AMA certified pill pushers or "therapists" available anywhere.

Yet somehow people seemed to handle life a bit more competently than we do in the 21st century...
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  #64  
Old 02-15-2023, 02:11 PM
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Re: Bott 2023

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
Wow.

Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?
But, of course, there is Balm in Gilead.

But we might have to redefine what we think of as Gilead, and what we understand to be the balm that is present within it.
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  #65  
Old 02-15-2023, 02:59 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Bott 2023

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Let's pretend it's the middle of the 2nd century.

Think of all the traumas the average person would have undergone before becoming a Christian. Slavery, rape, beatings, war... Just to name a few.

And there were no AMA certified pill pushers or "therapists" available anywhere.

Yet somehow people seemed to handle life a bit more competently than we do in the 21st century...
Right. We have become a very fragile people.
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  #66  
Old 02-15-2023, 03:02 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Bott 2023

Also, the push here is for the ministry because somehow ministers can't handle pressure or anxiety or somehow life has become worse than ever. Ministry is hard and ministers have not only their ministry but their family to care for.

I didn't realize that early Pentecostals had it so easy.

I've been to BOTT and other preacher conferences, there's not one of them starving or without food. Most of them wear suits that likely cost more than what I make in a paycheck. The majority have nice homes and cars and have very little need.

Think at the beginning of the organization. I've read stories of Pentecostal pioneer evangelists who were stripped and beaten, almost to death, by railroad workers who were angry at their tent meetings. Stories of ministers being threatened almost daily or weekly because they were apostolic ministers. Ministers punched and beaten, mocked and abused.

But yes, we're so much worse off than those early Pentecostals.
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  #67  
Old 02-15-2023, 04:25 PM
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Re: Bott 2023

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
Also, the push here is for the ministry because somehow ministers can't handle pressure or anxiety or somehow life has become worse than ever. Ministry is hard and ministers have not only their ministry but their family to care for.

I didn't realize that early Pentecostals had it so easy.

I've been to BOTT and other preacher conferences, there's not one of them starving or without food. Most of them wear suits that likely cost more than what I make in a paycheck. The majority have nice homes and cars and have very little need.

Think at the beginning of the organization. I've read stories of Pentecostal pioneer evangelists who were stripped and beaten, almost to death, by railroad workers who were angry at their tent meetings. Stories of ministers being threatened almost daily or weekly because they were apostolic ministers. Ministers punched and beaten, mocked and abused.

But yes, we're so much worse off than those early Pentecostals.
If people don't have problems to deal with, they will invent problems to deal with. That's my observation of the average human being. Not sure why that is though.
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  #68  
Old 02-15-2023, 04:37 PM
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Re: Bott 2023

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If people don't have problems to deal with, they will invent problems to deal with. That's my observation of the average human being. Not sure why that is though.

Could it be that people default to a negativity bias?

https://positivepsychology.com/3-ste...ity-bias/#bias

Negativity bias refers to our proclivity to “attend to, learn from, and use negative information far more than positive information” (Vaish, Grossmann, & Woodward, 2008, p. 383). We can think of it as an asymmetry in how we process negative and positive occurrences to understand our world, one in which “negative events elicit more rapid and more prominent responses than non-negative events” (Carretié, Mercado, Tapia, & Hinojosa., 2001, p. 75).


I think this is why we are exhorted to think on positive things:

Philippians 4:8
King James Version
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Last edited by Amanah; 02-15-2023 at 04:42 PM.
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  #69  
Old 02-16-2023, 04:34 AM
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Re: Bott 2023

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
I listened to this on Tuesday.
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  #70  
Old 02-18-2023, 03:34 AM
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Re: Bott 2023

So, a revival broke out a week or so ago at Asbury University in Kentucky, a Methodist-Wesleyan college. Round the clock prayer and singing, people lined up for half a mile outside trying to get in, reported on local and national news, viral on social media...

Oh and apparently anybody older than 26 is banned from the main location.
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