“God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

Evang.Benincasa · #1 09-21-2021, 05:12 PM

Does God only want volunteer giving? Jesus' ministry is only about volunteers. Even though Jesus hand picked His group He took them out of their vocations. Telling them that once they use to fish for fish, but now their real vocation is about catching men. They were told that any house they entered into they were to wish peace upon that home. Anything that was set before them, they were to partake in that meal. They were to bring no supplies, no money, yet they would be taken care of and not by asking for it. They were like the children of Israel leaving Egypt. So in that way they would allow God to provide. Not extorting money, like Simon the Sorcerer. Healing and delivering people for a payment. But doing everything without asking for anything in return.

coksiw · #2 09-21-2021, 07:04 PM

You know you are starting a fire, right?

Nicodemus1968 · #3 09-22-2021, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw

You know you are starting a fire, right?

I don’t understand why this subject would start a fire?

The moment someone mentions tithing 10% to their Pastor or ministry on a weekly or monthly basis, you’ll have immediate kickback.

Well lets talk about volunteer giving, lets talk abut the resources that God has blessed us with. Not just ministry, preachers, everyone!

Do we keep the resources God has blessed us with and use it for our personal gain? Shouldnt we be giving to the poor outside the church walls. Using the resources to help feed the hungry (spiritually and naturally)?

The bible mentions

Matthew 6:31-32
[31] Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? [32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Take No thought our your needs, Jesus said the gentiles do that. Are we suppose to be living with the mindset that God will provide for us?

Matthew 6:33
[33] But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Seeking first the kingdom, is pretty hard to do, when you’re working 40-60 hours a week for some wordly boss. And your prayer life is maybe 5 hours a week.

Tithesmeister · #4 09-22-2021, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Does God only want volunteer giving? Jesus' ministry is only about volunteers. Even though Jesus hand picked His group He took them out of their vocations. Telling them that once they use to fish for fish, but now their real vocation is about catching men. They were told that any house they entered into they were to wish peace upon that home. Anything that was set before them, they were to partake in that meal. They were to bring no supplies, no money, yet they would be taken care of and not by asking for it. They were like the children of Israel leaving Egypt. So in that way they would allow God to provide. Not extorting money, like Simon the Sorcerer. Healing and delivering people for a payment. But doing everything without asking for anything in return.

If “God only wants voluntary giving”, I’m afraid that He is severely disappointed. When it comes to tithing there is no opportunity for voluntary giving in most Apostolic churches. Pastors go right into coercion and extortion mode. It is your money or your (spiritual) life. Many pastors do not even classify tithing as giving at all. According to them you would be RETURNING the money to God. They totally disregard the FACT that God established what tithing should be, under the Mosaic law. And He did not allow money to be tithed, under that same law. And they had money, they just didn’t tithe money.

As far as voluntary giving, most preachers will exhort the congregation to “give as unto the Lord” when it comes time to take an offering, or tithes. But they normally avoid preaching from Matthew 25, where Jesus teaches how to give exactly like you were giving to Him.

Why? I think it’s because they don’t want you giving to other causes until they get their “share”. It called being selfish. And to call most giving voluntary would be a stretch.

Tithesmeister · #5 09-22-2021, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I don’t understand why this subject would start a fire?

The moment someone mentions tithing 10% to their Pastor or ministry on a weekly or monthly basis, you’ll have immediate kickback.

Because tithing money, (once again) is not scriptural. Please quote ANY scripture saying otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Well lets talk about volunteer giving, lets talk abut the resources that God has blessed us with. Not just ministry, preachers, everyone!

Brother, have you been asleep? This is what I’ve been talking about! You responded to my post in “Who is Harry Morse” didn’t you?

Once again. This is what voluntary giving as unto the Lord looks like as described and endorsed, even taught by Jesus Christ.

[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[35] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[36] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[QUOTE=Nicodemus1968;1605311]
Do we keep the resources God has blessed us with and use it for our personal gain? Shouldnt we be giving to the poor outside the church walls. Using the resources to help feed the hungry (spiritually and naturally)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

The bible mentions

Matthew 6:31-32
[31] Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? [32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Take No thought our your needs, Jesus said the gentiles do that. Are we suppose to be living with the mindset that God will provide for us?

Matthew 6:33
[33] But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Seeking first the kingdom, is pretty hard to do, when you’re working 40-60 hours a week for some wordly boss. And your prayer life is maybe 5 hours a week.

It’s very plain. It’s easy to do. Don’t make it more difficult than it is. Just follow the directions. Don’t add to it or take away from it. Don’t ignore it. Teach it, preach it and do it.

coksiw · #6 09-22-2021, 12:30 PM

I have the feeling EB, smartly, created this thread to just get us out of Scott's one

jediwill83 · #7 09-22-2021, 12:49 PM

I was talking to my wife recently. I told her that we cannot snatch and grab blessings and curses from scrioture and assemble them in whatever configuration we wish like a Biblical Mr. PotatoHead.

If we live by the law and err in one thing we err in it all.

So if we want to preach old testament tithing, fine...but Malachi 3:8 speaks of God being robbed in tithes AND offerings.

You can't use that scripture to establish only one type of giving established.

We have to give WHAT they gave, HOW MUCH they gave, WHEN they gave,WHO it was given to and WHERE it was given.

If you violate those directives you violate Malachi 3:8.

Again, if you can pick and choose then whats to stop us from cutting out and disregarding any other scripture that doesnt suit our fancy?

That is an extremely dangerous precident to set...

If we use the patriarchs to establish the tithe principle then I by rights of the example the patriarchs set can decide to make a conditional tithe where I say "IF you will bless me" as did Jacob.

Also, covering tithing I am allowed to convert one kind of tithe to money*which means #1 that particular tithe wasnt initially money but something else and money was a secondary form only if certain conditions were not able to be met* but #2 I can take that tithe I have redeemed for money and purchase strong drink.

The New Testament specifically says that people are are to give without threat of compulsion what they have decided in their hearts for God loves a CHEERFUL giver...which lets me know that the Bible is acknowledging that its hard to be cheerful about giving when you are forced and threatened.

Now if Im being compelled, I am not allowed to give under my own free will voluntarily which takes an opportunity to be blessed out of the equation since Im driven by a requirement instead of being led by the Spirit.

Why do you think Jesus told a non Spirit filled man who had kept the entireity of the law to sell all his goods and give to the poor?

There is NO such command in the law of Moses...Christ was speaking of something the man had yet to experience....the leading of the Spirit which prompts giving more liberally than the law ever required.

You think it was just an accident that the early church were on a sell all their goods and give everything spree?

What motivated them to do so?

The law or the Spirit?

Preachers are literally shutting heaven from supplying their needs by riding the brakes on their peoples giving.

RELEASE your people to be led of the Spirit and see what happens!

The only problem is that its been such a ingrained tradition people are gonna stare at that liberty like a cow at a new gate.

Its ironic that people are told "give and God will bless" expecting us to trust God but we have ministry that cant trust God to move upon people to give freely.

Its like having grandmothers, aunts etc that demand a hug everytime you enter the room, the preempt you not even giving you a chance to show any affection willingly on your own accord...it begins to develop resentment against showing love in that way when it would develop much greater feelings of affection had you been allowed to do it on your own decision and it would be more rewarding for them getting to receive love freely given instead of demanded.

Tithesmeister · #8 09-22-2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jediwill83

I was talking to my wife recently. I told her that we cannot snatch and grab blessings and curses from scrioture and assemble them in whatever configuration we wish like a Biblical Mr. PotatoHead.

If we live by the law and err in one thing we err in it all.

So if we want to preach old testament tithing, fine...but Malachi 3:8 speaks of God being robbed in tithes AND offerings.

You can't use that scripture to establish only one type of giving established.

We have to give WHAT they gave, HOW MUCH they gave, WHEN they gave,WHO it was given to and WHERE it was given.

If you violate those directives you violate Malachi 3:8.

Again, if you can pick and choose then whats to stop us from cutting out and disregarding any other scripture that doesnt suit our fancy?

That is an extremely dangerous precident to set...

If we use the patriarchs to establish the tithe principle then I by rights of the example the patriarchs set can decide to make a conditional tithe where I say "IF you will bless me" as did Jacob.

Also, covering tithing I am allowed to convert one kind of tithe to money*which means #1 that particular tithe wasnt initially money but something else and money was a secondary form only if certain conditions were not able to be met* but #2 I can take that tithe I have redeemed for money and purchase strong drink.

The New Testament specifically says that people are are to give without threat of compulsion what they have decided in their hearts for God loves a CHEERFUL giver...which lets me know that the Bible is acknowledging that its hard to be cheerful about giving when you are forced and threatened.

Now if Im being compelled, I am not allowed to give under my own free will voluntarily which takes an opportunity to be blessed out of the equation since Im driven by a requirement instead of being led by the Spirit.

Why do you think Jesus told a non Spirit filled man who had kept the entireity of the law to sell all his goods and give to the poor?

There is NO such command in the law of Moses...Christ was speaking of something the man had yet to experience....the leading of the Spirit which prompts giving more liberally than the law ever required.

You think it was just an accident that the early church were on a sell all their goods and give everything spree?

What motivated them to do so?

The law or the Spirit?

Preachers are literally shutting heaven from supplying their needs by riding the brakes on their peoples giving.

RELEASE your people to be led of the Spirit and see what happens!

The only problem is that its been such a ingrained tradition people are gonna stare at that liberty like a cow at a new gate.

Its ironic that people are told "give and God will bless" expecting us to trust God but we have ministry that cant trust God to move upon people to give freely.

Its like having grandmothers, aunts etc that demand a hug everytime you enter the room, the preempt you not even giving you a chance to show any affection willingly on your own accord...it begins to develop resentment against showing love in that way when it would develop much greater feelings of affection had you been allowed to do it on your own decision and it would be more rewarding for them getting to receive love freely given instead of demanded.

Maybe . . .

It a control issue.