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  #121  
Old 12-07-2021, 11:41 PM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Rubbish
I wouldn’t say that.

The disciples, apostles, the early church gave all.
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  #122  
Old 12-07-2021, 11:49 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I wouldn’t say that.

The disciples, apostles, the early church gave all.
Sounds like some of these hermanos don't want to let go of their pesos
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  #123  
Old 12-08-2021, 07:05 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Proverbs 18:6 the fool's mouth calls for a fat lip. Then they wonder why we end up having a hair pulling contest.


The first century church was communal Acts 2:44.

Acts 4:34-35 There were no needy ones among them, because those who owned lands or houses would sell their property, bring the proceeds from the sales, and lay them at the apostles’ feet for distribution to anyone as he had need.

This set a precedence for how the church was to behave in the first century.

Gatherings were in homes, they shared everything, and pooled all their assets together. Romans 15:26 contributions wasn't what we think of today, but the early church used everything they had to take care of each other. Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each one should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not out of regret or compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. these lines in 2nd Corinthians are concerning collections for those who were in need. Paul saying that he robbed other churches so that he could minister in Corinth, was to point out that in their community they lacked nothing. Unlike the Jerusalem commune who were on hard times due to all the upheavals in the city of Jerusalem. No, there was no ten percent of your wage, it was everything you had.

Now, Jerusalem commune knew that their city was doomed. Therefore they took property sold it, and gave everyone as they had need. This was the opposite of what the Prophet Jeremiah did in Jeremiah 32:1-17. deeds were drawn up and placed in a vessel that would last a long time. To show that they would one day return. this doesn't happen in Acts.

Church evolved from what it was then, to what it is today. They didn't have church buildings, they didn't have parsonages, they weren't incorporated, they weren't part of the Roman system of taxation, equivalent to a 501c3. They didn't have to pay light bills, heating bills, water bills for a building that housed no one. They went house to house, some houses were large enough to fill up with a large group of the church family. No just meeting on the Sabbath, but the were together daily. Modern church only meets together 5 hours a week? maybe more? Maybe less? Everyone wants to believe they are doing just like they did it in the first century. But the reality is, they are doing it more like the early Roman church.
I agree with this post. But what does it have to do with Darrel Brooks Jr.?

Isn’t there a thread around here somewhere for giving?
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  #124  
Old 12-08-2021, 07:15 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I wouldn’t say that.

The disciples, apostles, the early church gave all.
Of course this is false. If everyone gave all, what happened to the gift? Did it just pile up and eventually rot away?

The truth is that for every gift there was a receiver of that gift. So some were givers and some were receivers. None had any need because why? Because the gift was distributed to all who had need.

And to assume that it was all this way or all that way and continued to be so would be an error. If it was always a situation where everyone was always giving to others, why did the Grecian widows complain that they weren’t getting their share?
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  #125  
Old 12-08-2021, 07:43 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I wouldn’t say that.

The disciples, apostles, the early church gave all.
The sold possession in Jerusalem as an act of hospitality to those that just converted and were there for Pentecost and wanted to stay longer to hear the doctrine of the Apostles. They responded to the need with great hospitality and sold possession, and nowhere said they gave the apostles all the salary for their labor or trade, which was probably the majority of the people. Possession is different than income. It talks about people with properties selling them to support the apostles ministry of thousands, and new brethren from abroad, ( and of course, widows and such as well). Read those verses in Acts in context: Pentecost, lots of people from many places in Jerusalem just converted, no Credit Cards, just enough to leave the next day, and now wanting to stay longer.


Another thing, after this event was done, you don't see that outpouring of hospitality and people selling all the things in ACTS or in the EPISTLES. Why? because there wasn't such a need. Instead, the did collections to support the widows and people in need within the congregation, and one time to support the church of Jerusalem, and even in this case, Paul asks to do a regular collection as people can give.

The "they gave it all" meaning "100% of all the income" (because they are contrasting with 10% tithing) is garbage teaching. Was only one event, for an extraordinary need, and it wasn't of income but of possessions.

Let's stop butchering the Scriptures to prove modern tithing please. It gets old.

The first century church after the Apostles passed didn't give 100% of their income either. No evidences of it.

Last edited by coksiw; 12-08-2021 at 08:01 AM.
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  #126  
Old 12-08-2021, 07:50 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Sounds like some of these hermanos don't want to let go of their pesos
They killed the true spirit of giving in the NT church. They killed it with coercion based on falsehood.
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  #127  
Old 12-08-2021, 07:53 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

Anyway, we should stop talking about tithing and go back to the original topic here.
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  #128  
Old 12-08-2021, 07:58 AM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Sounds like some of these hermanos don't want to let go of their pesos
Some hermanos want to do their giving as they feel in their heart. And maybe some brethren want to truly give as unto the Lord. You know, like Jesus said in

Matthew 25

31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[35] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[36] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Once again I’d like to remind everyone that giving unto Jesus is giving to these. He evidently forgot the pastor in this list. Odd. But the pastors often will exhort you to give as unto the Lord, when they really mean pay your tithes to

ME.
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  #129  
Old 12-08-2021, 09:21 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
The sold possession in Jerusalem as an act of hospitality to those that just converted and were there for Pentecost and wanted to stay longer to hear the doctrine of the Apostles.
Where do we read that is even alluded to? We haven't even the slightest indication they were doing it out of hospitability. Or an idea that they wanted the Apostles to stick around. We have not one word that the early Jerusalem church wanted to lay everything they owned at the apostles' feet in order to keep them around.



Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
They responded to the need with great hospitality and sold possession, and nowhere said they gave the apostles all the salary for their labor or trade, which was probably the majority of the people. Possession is different than income. It talks about people with properties selling them to support the apostles ministry of thousands, and new brethren from abroad, ( and of course, widows and such as well). Read those verses in Acts in context: Pentecost, lots of people from many places in Jerusalem just converted, no Credit Cards, just enough to leave the next day, and now wanting to stay longer.
The problem with being religiously brainwashed, is that people can't deal with subject matter. They continue with their mantra concerning their candy stick doctrines and defenses which they feel they honed. The apostles didn't need a salary, because everything was handed over to them to deal with as they saw fit. Hence laid at the apostles' feet. We are also told that the apostles didn't go fishing (FORMER VOCATION), or even wait tables of saints, they appointed another team to do all that job. Apostles came up with solely studying the Bible Acts 6:2. The communal lifestyle required different jobs within the community, and the apostles delegated who did what in taking caring of Apostolic widows, orphans, and their own destitute. Again, the apostles' needed to study the word, and therefore they laid down direction on how that was to be carried out. They were building community, their own self contained community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Another thing, after this event was done, you don't see that outpouring of hospitality and people selling all the things in ACTS or in the EPISTLES. Why? because there wasn't such a need. Instead, the did collections to support the widows and people in need within the congregation, and one time to support the church of Jerusalem, and even in this case, Paul asks to do a regular collection as people can give.
The Bible doesn't go into detail on a plethora of different topics. But we are shown early on that the "church" had no buildings, steeples, parking lots. It was communal, they broke bread together on the daily. They had their own court systems 1 Corinthians 6:4, just as their Talmudic opposition had. Community is what they were building. It was already being established in the beginning chapters of Acts. Paul would of been redundant if he kept reminding them about something they already had down pat. By the time of the Epistles it was already established, Paul in his letters just hones what they were already involved in. Again, everyone met in homes, went house to house, and did it every day. Not only on the sabbath. Even the book of Revelation drives this home by calling the churches by the name of its cities. Because they were a kingdom within a kingdom, a country within a country, and a community within a community.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
The "they gave it all" meaning "100% of all the income" (because they are contrasting with 10% tithing) is garbage teaching.
What is garbage and rubbish, is the knee jerk reaction to a religious mind. Who believes their pet doctrine is being attacked, therefore doesn't understand what the other guy is saying. The apostles, and church leadership didn't think about a ten parentage. You weren't even required to give anything, but if you did commit to the apostle, you better do it Acts 5:4 explains how that all your property is your own, and after selling it you are able to do as you very well please. Ananias and Sapphira, kept back part of the price (gave the apostle 10 percent maybe? Who knows) but Peter tells them they put more emphasis on what they owned, what they would do with what they owned, making themselves look good through offerings, and then only giving a percentage, all through self deception. The apostle is no one, God is the one who let the apostle know what was up. God doesn't care about the amount, He cares about people wanting to be selfishly separate from the brethren.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Was only one event, for an extraordinary need, and it wasn't of income but of possessions.
Sold the possession for money, the property for money, laid the money at the apostles feet. One event? Well Paul kept taking up collections from other communities to have them brought to Jerusalem. Why didn't Paul just rebuke them for being bad stewards of what they had, and tell them that they got themselves in their own mess by deleting all their assets? Now other church families had to provide for these guys for their one big mistake. He didn't, because all of them were communal house to house and understood the hardships coming upon their brand new movement Philippians 4:15 shows the Philippian community sending out funds. The church of Philippi wasn't some mega church with a steeple and a parking lot with ushers directing traffic. The weren't the First UPCI of Philippi. With stone columns, and a giant angel on the platform. They were communities, were leadership wasn't just one minister, but an eldership, and deacons working among the community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Let's stop butchering the Scriptures to prove modern tithing please. It gets old.
You can't swim out of it? Caught in the ecclesiastical undertow of your candy stick anti doctrine? Everything looks like 10 percenters, sends you into a tailspin. Old and drier than a mummy's pocket defenses cherry picked from the internet. In your mind their is only two positions to tithe or not to tithe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
The first century church after the Apostles passed didn't give 100% of their income either. No evidences of it.
Did you learn that in Catholic school?
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Last edited by Evang.Benincasa; 12-08-2021 at 09:23 AM.
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  #130  
Old 12-08-2021, 09:28 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Some hermanos want to do their giving as they feel in their heart. And maybe some brethren want to truly give as unto the Lord. You know, like Jesus said in

Matthew 25

31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[35] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[36] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Once again I’d like to remind everyone that giving unto Jesus is giving to these. He evidently forgot the pastor in this list. Odd. But the pastors often will exhort you to give as unto the Lord, when they really mean pay your tithes to

ME.

Bro, that dog bit you hard. When he sunk his fangs into your rear end, he chewed you bloody and blue. Thank God you aren't a preacher within a church family. Cancer spreads honey child, cancer spreads. I got what you are saying, and you be surprised at what I believe (even though I've posted it many times before) but you are hurt bad.

Keeping you and your loved ones in prayer.
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