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  #21  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:18 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

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Originally Posted by Baron1710 View Post
They had church in homes, the didn't run aisles, or behave in such a way as to destroy the homes they were in, which is what would happen if they had a Pentecostal style worship service.



In my Dad's church, when I was a kid, he did have a minister who assisted him who would roll around on the floor while praising God.

I only saw that one other place-- Jacksonvile, NC. A young guy named Tony Clodfelter would do that.

I guess if they weren't careful they could break something, maybe even a bone.


But you and I both know that rolling is not the norm. Couldn't someone leap and dance in place in praise to God?
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 05-29-2010 at 08:21 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:19 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Ok let me ask you this. You and I have talked before. Don't you miss the praise and worship of Apostolic services?

If not, why not?
No, I don't miss it. The church I attend is exuberant in their worship and praise. I just don't think it is necessarily God. It is more about emotion than about God.

Most are sincere in their worship but for the most part it is a learned response.
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  #23  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:19 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

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Originally Posted by TrmptPraise View Post
Praise is an adoration, worship is a reverence...there is a difference.

Just my opinion, Praise is an outward expression that can not be internalized. Whether that expression comes from the mouth, dancing before the Lord or running the aisles is of no consequence to me as long as it is done sincerely.

Worship, on the other hand, can be something done in somberness, silent prayer, or some other form. Again my opinion, but I believe both are necessary. However, I have seen many use worship to say they are praising. Nope, not at all. Praise can't be bottled up.


Hey Bro,

Can worship be demonstrative?
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  #24  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:21 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

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Originally Posted by Baron1710 View Post
No, I don't miss it. The church I attend is exuberant in their worship and praise. I just don't think it is necessarily God. It is more about emotion than about God.

Most are sincere in their worship but for the most part it is a learned response.

Learned as in automatic, as in maybe even mindless?

In your former Apostolic years, wasn't praise and worship more about God than emotions, in your opinion?
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  #25  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:31 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

Why do so many former Apostolic churches lose their fire once they change their doctrinal stance?


Does anyone know if any of the PCI churches were more Presbyterian than Pentecostal or is this just something that tends to happen today?
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  #26  
Old 05-29-2010, 09:14 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Hey Bro,

Can worship be demonstrative?
I may be simplifying this a bit, but worship acknowledges the sovereignty God, His omnipotence, His power, His ability. Worship leads to praise. Example: Because I acknowledge his power (worship), I can declare (praise) His ability to do miracles in my life. Praise is not only a product of his work in my life, but a declaration of works that have yet to be done in my life(such as situations or circumstances that have not been resolved).

Another example: If I have been laid off, I can worship him as the provider and praise him because He will provide. The Spirit within me wants to praise, despite my circumstances or situation.

In response to your question to me, worship leads to praise which is demonstrable.
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  #27  
Old 05-29-2010, 09:56 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

I know this video has been played numerous times here, but is this exuberance and is it praise? Are those doing this, really sincere?

So I guess what I am asking, how much does exuberance and sincerity have to do with what should go on in a "Pentecostal" church service?

If a survey was possible, you would probably find any number of different levels of praise and exuberance in churches today. Does the amount of exuberance determine how much truth they have? What does the exuberance determine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M


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  #28  
Old 05-29-2010, 10:58 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Ok, with the exception of one church, why is it that whenever I ask questions about churches that were once 3-stepper but are now not, I always find out that their services are no longer exuberant?


Is it that these folks who change never thought the running and leaping and expressions of praise and joy were ever necessary or even valid in the first place?


THE COGIC churches I have visited are all "1-stepper" and Trinitarian in doctrine and yet you never hear of a dead COGIC church.

Many of the Church of God Christians I've met down through the years also attest that their services are usually exuberant.


So what gives with the others?


Why believe in the Holy Ghost and go to the First Church of the Refrigerator?

Why allow your services to become like that?

No way. Nuh uh. Not even close. You have no idea. For me?.....I'm TEN TIMES as exuberant as before. I was a stick in the mud as a pentecostal. I am not such a fanatic, it's crazy. At LEAST ten times. Probably more!!!
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  #29  
Old 05-29-2010, 11:03 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Ok, with the exception of one church, why is it that whenever I ask questions about churches that were once 3-stepper but are now not, I always find out that their services are no longer exuberant?


Is it that these folks who change never thought the running and leaping and expressions of praise and joy were ever necessary or even valid in the first place?


THE COGIC churches I have visited are all "1-stepper" and Trinitarian in doctrine and yet you never hear of a dead COGIC church.

Many of the Church of God Christians I've met down through the years also attest that their services are usually exuberant.


So what gives with the others?


Why believe in the Holy Ghost and go to the First Church of the Refrigerator?

Why allow your services to become like that?
I don't understand why a church that worships God but does not run around in circles or jumping up and down are suddenly no longer "exuberant".

In fact I think it's a flat out false doctrine to teach unless you run around in circles or jump up and down you are "cold"

While some folks are running around in circles and giving each other hi-5s some of the rest of us are deeply entagled with the Spirit of God in praise that is less superficial
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
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  #30  
Old 05-29-2010, 11:05 PM
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Re: Change The Doctrine, Lose The Exuberance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Why do so many former Apostolic churches lose their fire once they change their doctrinal stance?


Does anyone know if any of the PCI churches were more Presbyterian than Pentecostal or is this just something that tends to happen today?
"fire" means, in your view, running around in circles and jumping up and down? Fire means, in my view, getting off your butt and reaching lost souls, praying for people, praying daily, not just on Sundays when the music is fast
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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