The Two Baptisms

[good samaritan]

1 Corinthians 10:1-3

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

The cloud and the sea some could think the cloud and the sea are referring to the same water baptism, but us apostolics know that their is physical (water baptism) & spiritual (Holy Ghost) baptism. Therefore the sea represents water baptism and the Cloud the Spirit Baptism. Does anyone agree or disagree?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

1 Corinthians 10:1-3

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

The cloud and the sea some could think the cloud and the sea are referring to the same water baptism, but us apostolics know that their is physical (water baptism) & spiritual (Holy Ghost) baptism. Therefore the sea represents water baptism and the Cloud the Spirit Baptism. Does anyone agree or disagree?

Generally I think we should seek scripture to prove or disprove doctrine (agree or disagree). Actually it would be nice if we took our doctrine FROM the Bible, and didn’t take it TO the Bible. So my question for you is; what does the scripture say about your idea? If it is silent concerning your doctrine, maybe we should be too.

Does the Bible support it? Great! Teach on.

If you have to add to or subtract from scripture, I think it’s a bad idea.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

1 Corinthians 10:1-3

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

The cloud and the sea some could think the cloud and the sea are referring to the same water baptism, but us apostolics know that their is physical (water baptism) & spiritual (Holy Ghost) baptism. Therefore the sea represents water baptism and the Cloud the Spirit Baptism. Does anyone agree or disagree?

Agreed. And when you add verse 4, that Rock was Christ, isnt that what sets apart the Apostolic movement from the other Church groups?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Generally I think we should seek scripture to prove or disprove doctrine (agree or disagree). Actually it would be nice if we took our doctrine FROM the Bible, and didn’t take it TO the Bible. So my question for you is; what does the scripture say about your idea? If it is silent concerning your doctrine, maybe we should be too.

Does the Bible support it? Great! Teach on.

If you have to add to or subtract from scripture, I think it’s a bad idea.

Agree or disagree? That is the question I asked.

Regarding your questions:

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
....Matthew‬ ..3:11‬ ..KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
....John‬ ..3:5‬ ..KJV‬‬

“Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.”
....Acts‬ ..11:16‬ ..KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”
....Acts‬ ..19:1-6‬ ..KJV‬‬

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?”
....Acts‬ ..10:47‬ ..

It seems to me scriptures teach a physical “water baptism” and a spiritual “Holy Ghost baptism”.

Now do you want to respond to the agree or disagree part?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

1 Corinthians 10:1-3

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

The cloud and the sea some could think the cloud and the sea are referring to the same water baptism, but us apostolics know that their is physical (water baptism) & spiritual (Holy Ghost) baptism. Therefore the sea represents water baptism and the Cloud the Spirit Baptism. Does anyone agree or disagree?

There is so much more to this than what you’re reducing it to…

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by diakonos

There is so much more to this than what you’re reducing it to…

Absolutely, I agree. My intent is not to reduce anything down, but to invoke discussion. I like to read other peoples comments and not just my own thoughts on topics.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Agree or disagree? That is the question I asked.

Regarding your questions:

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
....Matthew‬ ..3:11‬ ..KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
....John‬ ..3:5‬ ..KJV‬‬

“Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.”
....Acts‬ ..11:16‬ ..KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”
....Acts‬ ..19:1-6‬ ..KJV‬‬

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?”
....Acts‬ ..10:47‬ ..

It seems to me scriptures teach a physical “water baptism” and a spiritual “Holy Ghost baptism”.

Now do you want to respond to the agree or disagree part?

I haven’t seen anything that says passing through the Red Sea and being led by a cloud is the same as or even a type of the water and Spirit baptism. Paul doesn’t say so.

As far as I know, the Bible doesn’t say so either. So unless you have scripture otherwise I will disagree.

What Paul does say is that they were baptized unto Moses, which is what you didn’t say.

My point is that we often create doctrine out of thin air, meanwhile ignoring what’s s literally on the page.

And the Bible teaches we shouldn’t do that.

Deut.4

[2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

I’ll just say that the two covenants are not the same. We are under a better covenant. It’s not just another first covenant.

Also you were talking about two baptisms, but in effect you have quoted scripture that mentions three (John the Baptist’s baptism unto repentance).

It just seems like a half baked doctrine to me. I don’t agree with creating a doctrine that the Bible doesn’t teach.

Speaking of which, what do you as a pastor teach about the other half baked and misinformed doctrine of tithing?

Is there a physical baptism? And a Spiritual? Absolutely. It’s taught in the New Testament.

[diakonos]

And just like that, a tithing thread.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by diakonos

And just like that, a tithing thread.

It’s a great example of twisting scripture.

People who do teach a doctrine of tithing money for some reason don’t like to be reminded that it’s contrary to scripture.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister;

I haven’t seen anything that says passing through the Red Sea and being led by a cloud is the same as or even a type of the water and Spirit baptism. Paul doesn’t say so.

As far as I know, the Bible doesn’t say so either. So unless you have scripture otherwise I will disagree.

My point is that we often create doctrine out of thin air, meanwhile ignoring what’s s literally on the page.

And the Bible teaches we shouldn’t do that.

2) Deut.4

[2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

3) I’ll just say that the two covenants are not the same. We are under a better covenant. It’s not just another first covenant.

4) Also you were talking about two baptisms, but in effect you have quoted scripture that mentions three (John the Baptist’s baptism unto repentance).

It just seems like a half baked doctrine to me. I don’t agree with creating a doctrine that the Bible doesn’t teach.

Speaking of which, what do you as a pastor teach about the other half baked and misinformed doctrine of tithing?

Is there a physical baptism? And a Spiritual? Absolutely. It’s taught in the New Testament.

1)I posted the verse, so technically I did say it.

2) De. 4 is related to adding to the law of Moses which consists of tithing which obviously you refute. Are you under the law?

3) Never meant to say that the two covenants where the same, I was referring to typology. The Law was given as a schoolmaster, all the law and the prophets shall be fulfilled.

4) I fail to see the third. Water baptism & Spirit Baptism. Unless you are making John the Baptist baptisms a third.