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  #101  
Old 04-08-2021, 09:11 PM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Again, name a Trinitarian that doesn't believe Jesus is God.



That is good, because the litmus test of salvation is obedience to the Gospel, not a degree in theology proper.



Even though Trinitarians believe Jesus is God??? See above.



That IS NOT what the trinity is, and NO TRINITARIAN BELIEVES in three individual gods in one body.

When is this bearing of false witness going to end? Many Oneness people routinely caricaturize and misrepresent Trinitarian views on the Godhead and then proceed to critique and judge and condemn Trinitarians based off of those very caricatures and misrepresentations. It is a shame and not worthy of Christ.

Do unto others that which you would have others do unto you. If you don't want people caricaturizing and misrepresenting what you believe, how about not doing so to others, just so you can have your strawman and beat it, too.
I’ll come back to this. I have talked and conversed with trinitarians and Mormons, one believes in three the other believes in two.
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  #102  
Old 04-09-2021, 02:22 AM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
What was the purpose of God manifesting in the flesh? To fulfill the plan he had from the foundation of the world. To provide a perfect sacrifice to cover all our sins with the atoning blood. Paul said it better, his sacrifice did what the blood of bulls and goats could not do.

I believe after his ascention the humanity was no longer needed.
He rose that body from the grave, appeared to his disciples and others to prove his power of death, hell, and the grave.

God is a Spirit, the son of God (humanity) was not God. The spirit inside Humanity was God, not the flesh. The flesh or the humanity was just a vessel to be the sacrifice. I don't believe in divine flesh, I don't believe Jesus is a physical, natural Jew up in heaven somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Allow me to plainly ask, in heaven right now what is God in the form of and what is Jesus in the form of?

Is there humanity in the spiritual dimension of Heaven?
First of, thanks for answering the question.

From your response, you said the son of God is not God. You see the son as just a human body. I think I now understand why you keep saying “the humanity”.
I see the Son of God as God himself in human form not just a body. Here are a few reasons:

Looking at the time when “the humanity” was on earth:
Jn 10
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Notice that on multiple occasions, the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy because he called himself the Son of God. Notice in John 10:33 the Jews said Jesus should not make himself equal to God since he is just a man. The Jews recognized what Son of God equates to God.

Continuing, per your response, you said the humanity was done with after his ascension. So now, let’s look at the time after “the humanity” was supposedly done with:

1 Jn 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
The apostle John said to be born of God (born again), one must believe that Jesus is (not was) the Son of God. Whoever believes this overcomes the world. The apostle is still referring to Jesus as the Son of God years after his ascension.

1 Thess1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Apostle Paul is telling the Thessalonians to expect the Son back from heaven years after his ascension. This definitely shows (at least to me) that the Son was in heaven during the times of the Thessalonians.

I have shown you that Jesus called himself the Son of God while on earth and that equated to being God.
Now, let’s look at what Jesus called himself years after his ascension while in heaven.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
Notice Jesus call himself the Son of God tears after “the humanity” supposedly was done with. There are many other scriptures that show Jesus is CURRENTLY the Son of God, but these should suffice.

On to your question-
You asked “in heaven right now, what is God in the form of and what is Jesus in the form of?”
I believe 1 cor 15 thoroughly answers this question. It’s a long scripture so I’ll just emphasize some verses in there.
1 cor 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So what form is Jesus in right now? The spiritual (incorruptible) body with which he was raised from the dead. Paul said we too shall have the same body at the resurrection.

Apostle John said the same thing:
1 Jn 1:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
We will have the same spiritual body that Jesus has.

What form is God in? Jesus is God (at least to me), so God exists SIMULTANEOUSLY as the incorporeal Spirit he has always been AND as the resurrected Christ.

Your other question- “is there humanity in heaven?”
Like I showed you from 1 cor 15- Jesus has a spiritual body in heaven right now (not our adamic, corrupt flesh). And we too will receive the same spiritual body at the resurrection. So there will be plenty “humanity” in heaven at some point..lol

2 cor 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven
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  #103  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:23 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Again, name a Trinitarian that doesn't believe Jesus is God.
As they worship three, they eliminate Jesus form being God. They may say it, (Jesus is God) they can confess it, yet there are two other gods they believe in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
That is good, because the litmus test of salvation is obedience to the Gospel, not a degree in theology proper.
I disagree. Submission is the key to salvation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Even though Trinitarians believe Jesus is God??? See above.
If they believed Jesus is God, then they would believe there is only One God and that is the God of the Old and New Covenant and his name is Jesus. Hid from the Old Covenant, revealed by the Angel in the New.

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
That IS NOT what the trinity is, and NO TRINITARIAN BELIEVES in three individual gods in one body.
Definition from Encyclopedia of Britannica
Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

Under the Godhead they believe in three separate persons. God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Hence why they baptize in the titles father, son, and Holy Spirit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
When is this bearing of false witness going to end? Many Oneness people routinely caricaturize and misrepresent Trinitarian views on the Godhead and then proceed to critique and judge and condemn Trinitarians based off of those very caricatures and misrepresentations. It is a shame and not worthy of Christ.

Do unto others that which you would have others do unto you. If you don't want people caricaturizing and misrepresenting what you believe, how about not doing so to others, just so you can have your strawman and beat it, too.
I gave my opinion to a question concerning the disunity between the two camps of oneness and trinitarian believers. I simply said we do not worship the same God. From there we have had a lively discussion, the fact remains the same, they do not worship the same God I do. Our compassion for humanity can get in the way of truth yet truth it is. I love Trinitarians, my prayer is that there blinded eyes will see the revelation of Jesus Christ. I will help in any way possible with anyone that doesn’t understand or believe in the One True God. Yet, the fact is, I worship One God and His name is Jesus, they worship a triune godhead that is made up of three persons, again, we do not worship the same God. Sorry!

If the trinitarians worship three persons in the godhead, and oneness believers worship one God in the godhead, then do we worship the same God?
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  #104  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:23 AM
1 God 1 God is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
First of, thanks for answering the question.

From your response, you said the son of God is not God. You see the son as just a human body. I think I now understand why you keep saying “the humanity”.
I see the Son of God as God himself in human form not just a body. Here are a few reasons:

Looking at the time when “the humanity” was on earth:
Jn 10
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Notice that on multiple occasions, the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy because he called himself the Son of God. Notice in John 10:33 the Jews said Jesus should not make himself equal to God since he is just a man. The Jews recognized what Son of God equates to God.

Continuing, per your response, you said the humanity was done with after his ascension. So now, let’s look at the time after “the humanity” was supposedly done with:

1 Jn 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
The apostle John said to be born of God (born again), one must believe that Jesus is (not was) the Son of God. Whoever believes this overcomes the world. The apostle is still referring to Jesus as the Son of God years after his ascension.

1 Thess1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Apostle Paul is telling the Thessalonians to expect the Son back from heaven years after his ascension. This definitely shows (at least to me) that the Son was in heaven during the times of the Thessalonians.

I have shown you that Jesus called himself the Son of God while on earth and that equated to being God.
Now, let’s look at what Jesus called himself years after his ascension while in heaven.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
Notice Jesus call himself the Son of God tears after “the humanity” supposedly was done with. There are many other scriptures that show Jesus is CURRENTLY the Son of God, but these should suffice.

On to your question-
You asked “in heaven right now, what is God in the form of and what is Jesus in the form of?”
I believe 1 cor 15 thoroughly answers this question. It’s a long scripture so I’ll just emphasize some verses in there.
1 cor 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So what form is Jesus in right now? The spiritual (incorruptible) body with which he was raised from the dead. Paul said we too shall have the same body at the resurrection.

Apostle John said the same thing:
1 Jn 1:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
We will have the same spiritual body that Jesus has.

What form is God in? Jesus is God (at least to me), so God exists SIMULTANEOUSLY as the incorporeal Spirit he has always been AND as the resurrected Christ.

Your other question- “is there humanity in heaven?”
Like I showed you from 1 cor 15- Jesus has a spiritual body in heaven right now (not our adamic, corrupt flesh). And we too will receive the same spiritual body at the resurrection. So there will be plenty “humanity” in heaven at some point..lol

2 cor 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven
In Acts 9, the visible "body" of Jesus was a heavenly light brighter than the sun that Paul saw, which blinded him.
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  #105  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:25 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

[QUOTE=TGBTG;1602346]First of, thanks for answering the question.

I will come back to this, I have company today, Ill come back to it tonight or in the morning.
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  #106  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:26 AM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 God View Post
In Acts 9, the visible "body" of Jesus was a heavenly light brighter than the sun that Paul saw, which blinded him.
Jesus is a Spirit.
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  #107  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:45 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
In the Old Covenant it's says I sought for a man to stand in the hedge and make up the gap. The mediator that brought us to God is the MAN Christ Jesus. The humanity, son, and or sacrifice brought us to God. Without the blood of Jesus being spotless, perfect there was no mediator.
Paul spoke in the present tense, "there IS one mediator...the MAN."


His scars will still be visible at his second coming.
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  #108  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:46 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Jesus is a Spirit.
John saw a man with hair, feet, eyes, face, etc.
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  #109  
Old 04-09-2021, 12:28 PM
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Bro Flame Bro Flame is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

My maternal grandmother was born and raised Roman Catholic, which is about as Trinitarian as one can get.

She was strong on:
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Ghost

She wanted to hear nothing about Oneness. That's not what she believed, and that is not what the Catholic church teaches. She insisted that she believed in only one God, but she was also quick to inform you that she believed in the Holy Trinity.

All Trinitarians may not be as staunch as some with their beliefs.

But the basic consensus is that Trinitarians believe the Godhead consists of three co-equal and co-eternal persons. In short, there are three separate deities in the Godhead. That is not what the Bible teaches, nor is that what the Apostles taught, and we're told to remain steadfast in their doctrine.

On the other hand, some self-proclaiming Trinitarians are simply so use to hearing Father, Son, and Spirit that they think just the titles means they're Trinitarian. But if you were to discuss the Godhead with these people they would appear to be Oneness. A brother in my church discussed Oneness with his sister, only to find out she was already a mislabeled Oneness believer. Too bad she went back to her Nazarene preacher and let that woman talk her out of Oneness and back into the Trinity.

Those men and women that have been to Trinitarian seminaries are the most dogmatic on the Trinity. They think Oneness is heresy and that we're legalistic modalists.
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I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.
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  #110  
Old 04-09-2021, 12:42 PM
1 God 1 God is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Jesus is a Spirit.
An omnipresent spirit body that radiates light.
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