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  #91  
Old 02-10-2021, 04:19 PM
LOVE JESUS LOVE JESUS is offline
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Re: Basic Standards

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
I have honestly heard this preached both ways. Ladies should wear panty hose.
Ladies should never wear panty hose.

No wonder it gets confusing.

Iíve also seen it spelled both ways now.

I hope scripture is produced when it is brought up.
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  #92  
Old 02-10-2021, 04:28 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Basic Standards

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Originally Posted by LOVE JESUS View Post
I hope scripture is produced when it is brought up.
Scripture? For wearing hose or not?

Iím not aware of any.
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  #93  
Old 02-10-2021, 04:58 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Basic Standards

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Originally Posted by consapente89 View Post

Submit to a local pastor.
Amen.

And donít you believe that the pastor should submit to the congregation as well?
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  #94  
Old 02-11-2021, 03:23 AM
LOVE JESUS LOVE JESUS is offline
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Re: Basic Standards

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Scripture? For wearing hose or not?

Iím not aware of any.
That was my point. How can they preach on something so trivial when they don't have scripture to back it up? Things like this become a standard and then our preachers get on the bandwagon and enforce it as if it were Biblical. There is enough in the Bible to preach on without adding to it. JMOP
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  #95  
Old 02-12-2021, 03:22 PM
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Bro Flame Bro Flame is offline
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Re: Basic Standards

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Standards being the application of Biblical commands or principles regarding appearance to our lives in our current culture. Different cultures may require different settings for clothing that is distinctively for women or for men.

* All: cover upper legs even when sitting, which means pass the knees
* All: cover all your torso, which includes high necklines
* All: sleeves to cover your armpits even when you raise your hands.
* All: no jewelry.
* All: moderation regarding cost, whatever is appropriate for the occasion, wedding vs going to work
* Man: short hair
* Woman: uncut hair
* Man: pants, long shorts pass the knees, etc..., no skirts
* Woman: skirts
* All: super tight clothing like lycras, and tights, are like being naked, therefore, the previous standards apply to the part being exposed even if behind those tight clothing pieces.
I really like how you included "standards" that adhere to all, meaning both men and women. Oftentimes we forget that "holiness standards", when pertaining to the outward, are to be expected of a Holy Ghost-filled man and woman as they each grow in God.
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I am Apostolic
I believe in One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
I believe in water baptism by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
I believe in living a holiness lifestyle, inwardly and outwardly, without which no man shall see the Lord.
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  #96  
Old 02-20-2021, 09:58 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Basic Standards

What I believe about Holiness Standards
and no, I'm not going to debate it.

Love for God and love for others:
keep the commandments (all 10) thereby showing love for God and others
Serve God by staying in the word and in prayer, and assembly with the body of Christ.
Its about a right heart attitude (submission) towards God and others.

Separation from the world:
Guard you eyes and heart from worldly entertainment that glorifies sin, including almost everything put out by Hollywood and on TV.
Don't send children to public schools to be educated by the government, provide them a Christian education

Modesty in dress:
Men and women covered, no revealing or tight clothes.
No ostentation or expensive clothes.
No pants on women as a modesty issue, because it reveals a women's shape.
Deut 22:5 IMO, is not about pants, its about women not wearing a warriors garb, or a soldiers garb, or a uniform representing male authority. No dresses on men because that is cross dressing in our society.
If I'm at home, just me and my husband, and I want to wear yoga pants to work out, or sleep in Pj's, I do, cause like I said, I think its a modesty issue.

Hair:
In Cor 11, I see long hair on women and head covering both in the passage. I think if you fell asleep chewing gum and it got stuck in your hair and you had to cut it out, pffft. The issue is to let your hair grow long. I personally don't cut or trim my hair, but don't believe a trim now and again would be a sin.

One other thing, if you are going to wear sandals, french pedicure for the win!

Last edited by Amanah; 02-20-2021 at 10:59 AM.
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  #97  
Old 02-20-2021, 12:39 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Basic Standards

One problem with “basic standards” is that they often aren’t basic. They can’t be basic unless they are based on scripture.

When pastors start “enforcing” standards that are based on their opinion they have crossed the line from being pastors in a biblical sense to being dictators. Pastors have no biblical authority to enforce standards in my home. I have authority in my home. If a pastor tries to enforce authority in my home, he should be invited to a Bible study.

Just because he is confused about headship, doesn’t mean I’m supposed to be confused with him.

1Corinthians

[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I think a lot of the problems surrounding standards are a result of confusion about headship.
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  #98  
Old 02-20-2021, 10:47 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Basic Standards

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
One problem with ďbasic standardsĒ is that they often arenít basic. They canít be basic unless they are based on scripture.

When pastors start ďenforcingĒ standards that are based on their opinion they have crossed the line from being pastors in a biblical sense to being dictators. Pastors have no biblical authority to enforce standards in my home. I have authority in my home. If a pastor tries to enforce authority in my home, he should be invited to a Bible study.

Just because he is confused about headship, doesnít mean Iím supposed to be confused with him.

1Corinthians

[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I think a lot of the problems surrounding standards are a result of confusion about headship.
Brother, standards is just the application of Biblical principles to our times. The problem is some people see principles, some see cultural issues being addressed, and therefore don't want to follow the application the elders of the church are teaching.

We are not the only ones doing it. If you read the first centuries manuscripts you see exactly the same thing. If you even read much later manuscripts you see similar points. It makes total sense to me that God cares about how you look, and definitely it is the reflection of what it is inside.

The biggest issue here is that many preachers teach Standards as commandments of men. They say "you shall... because WE ARE HOLINESS APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTALS, and those other denominations will go to HEEEELLLL".
Instead, they should teach it from the Bible, and as the Apostles taught it: from the inside attitude out, as something that GOD wants; not the UPCI, not the Pastor of the church, not just to be contrarian to other believers groups.
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  #99  
Old 02-21-2021, 07:36 AM
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loran adkins loran adkins is offline
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Re: Basic Standards

There is always more that one way to understand what is read in scripture. In my life I have seen this many times over, I was raised in one church, that preached against pants and cutting hair on women to name two differences. When I was ten we moved across the state and attended another church where the women both cut their hair and wore pants. Both of these pastors were great men of God and held in great respect by many till theirs death.

So growing up I had to come to terms with standards. Were they of God or man. As I grew and studied the word I for myself came to the conclusion that standards were just a list of men's opinions which had become traditions, and not the will of God. You see what we call standards of holiness come from a smattering of scriptures from one end of the bible to the other. And not listed together like say the ten commandments. So that should tell one right there that they are a man made list and not of God. What I am saying is that this is a made up list from man and not put together by God.

Lets take just one passage
1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

So many take this passage to preach against jewelry, looking over the part that says not plaiting the hair, or the part that says putting on of apparel. So excuse me if I have a hard time believing that this scripture is saying that wearing jewelry is wrong. If that were true than so would plaiting of the hair and wearing of apparel be wrong. Yet we all know of many Pentecostal women that have wear the most elaborate hair styles, and clothing that money can buy. What really gets me is that they justify this by saying that one must wear their best for God.
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  #100  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:30 PM
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CC1 CC1 is offline
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Re: Basic Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Standards being the application of Biblical commands or principles regarding appearance to our lives in our current culture. Different cultures may require different settings for clothing that is distinctively for women or for men.

* All: cover upper legs even when sitting, which means pass the knees
* All: cover all your torso, which includes high necklines
* All: sleeves to cover your armpits even when you raise your hands.
* All: no jewelry.
* All: moderation regarding cost, whatever is appropriate for the occasion, wedding vs going to work
* Man: short hair
* Woman: uncut hair
* Man: pants, long shorts pass the knees, etc..., no skirts
* Woman: skirts
* All: super tight clothing like lycras, and tights, are like being naked, therefore, the previous standards apply to the part being exposed even if behind those tight clothing pieces.
FYI- the word is "past" not "pass" (i.e. "past the knee)
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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