Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-25-2017, 05:27 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 456
law of sin

When Adam disobeyed, he ushered a new law into the world…one that wasn’t previously here. It was a law as powerful as gravity, floatation, or light. 4,000 years later, Paul would call it: …the law of sin which is in my members. On the coattails of this new law came death. The law of sin and death not only affected Adam and humanity, but the entire creation. Wild animals became vicious, carnivorous, and territorial…plants began to whither and die…trees were felled by parasites…big fish began eating little fish, etc… The entire food chain was rocked…none more than Adam, at the top. He had life unending…with no aging, sickness or death…to dress and keep the garden of God. This life unending resided in his blood, for: …the life of the flesh is in the blood. If then, this eternal life in Adam’s blood was poisoned…of his own doing…then of necessity, a change has taken place in his chemistry. Before the arrival of sin and death, Adam’s blood sample would be worth a million Pulitzer’s. What coursed through his veins was pure blood…the original recipe…eternal life. After the forbidden fruit, Adam’s blood…and the blood of all who would issue from his loins…was forever changed. Yes, life still flowed there…but not eternal life. What now flowed through his veins, was some lesser manifestation of life. It included a process of aging, a slow devolution of disease, degradation, corruption…and in the end, death. Gone was the pure, original recipe. It was now infected. The blood flowing in his veins was literally, chemically contaminated, with the law of sin. This is that same law working in Paul’s members some 4,000 years later, and in our members today. The blood where our life resides, is poisoned blood. Free will, the wrong choice, brought 6,000 years of infection never cured. Adam did surely die, that very day. He and Eve are the only humans to have ever tasted that purity. Only they had a reference point, from which to gauge sin, and its debilitating effects. Everyone after them has lived on the consequence side of that breach. Infected life, and death, are normal to us. They are the only base line we know.
As a law, sin shares some basic properties with other creation laws. God’s laws fascinate me. They’re sorta split into higher laws, and lower laws. The lower laws are always in force…24/7. Man is given no power over the lower laws. They are as solid as a rock, and man cannot stop, change, or impede them. Higher laws are just the opposite. They are only in force when man chooses, and man has been given power over the higher laws.
Gravity is the classic lower law. It is in force at all times, 24/7. Man has no power over this lower law. In God’s economy, there’s only one way to overcome a lower law…you must choose to apply a higher law. Today, we fly through the air in steel airplanes, hauling thousands of people an hour, to places throughout the world. Thousands of pounds of flesh and steel, defying gravity. How? By applying the higher law of aerodynamics, we suspend the lower law of gravity. But it never really went away. Just turn off the airplane engines and see. You have that choice.
If an object is lighter than water, it floats. If it is heavier than water, it sinks. Pretty simple lower law. So then, how is it that we sail the seven seas in huge steel warships…much heavier than water? We apply the higher law of displacement, and suspend the lower law of floatation. Is the lower law gone? Punch a big hole in the side of the ship, and start taking on water in the displaced void. Lower law wins. Steel is too heavy to float.
Have you ever gone to the hardware store, and asked the clerk for a “dark switch “? Something you could control the dark with? They don’t sell them. Man has no power over the lower law of darkness. It remains in force at all times, 24/7. But, besides the sun beating it up all day, we can ask the clerk for a light switch. These they do sell, and they’re the coolest thing. Every time I choose to engage the higher law of light, I flip the switch, and darkness hides in the closet, or flees under the bed. It just sorta lurks there, until I choose to remove the higher law, and flip the light switch off.
The point I’m trying to make, is that sin…the law of sin…is a lower law. It resides in each of us, coursing through our veins. This truth cannot be overstated. The law of sin is in force at all times, 24/7. It will live inside you until the day you die. We have absolutely no power over this global disease. Every human being now living, and every human being to have ever lived since Adam, is infected with this law of sin. It couldn’t be helped. It was passed on to you at your conception…chemically and biologically…by the laws of pro-creation. The entire human race became infected at the source. We have no power over this lower law…this global disease. It remains uncured after 6,000 years. All are doomed to live life, with this raging law of sin running riot through their bodies. At the end of that ride, all are appointed to die. This is the pitiable state of the human race. But there is hope. God, being like He is, has given us a higher law to deal with our disease. As long as we choose to apply it, the lower law of sin remains suspended. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Or, to put it another way: This I say then, walk in the spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:56 PM
Monterrey Monterrey is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North of the Rio Grande
Posts: 2,670
Re: law of sin

Couple questions I have concerning your writing.

1 if Adam had eternal life in him then why would God put a tree of life in the garden?
2 if they were so perfect how could they have sinned? James tells us that every man is drawn away of their own lusts. Satan could only tempt them in what they already wanted.
__________________
WHO IS BREXIT AND IS HE A TRINITARIAN?- James LeDeay 10/30/16


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-26-2017, 04:39 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 456
Re: law of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
Couple questions I have concerning your writing.

1 if Adam had eternal life in him then why would God put a tree of life in the garden?
2 if they were so perfect how could they have sinned? James tells us that every man is drawn away of their own lusts. Satan could only tempt them in what they already wanted.
Monterrey,
thank you for your response. i'll have to pray about your first question, as I don't have a scriptural answer. will get back to you. on the second question the scripture teaches that sin {and death by sin} entered the world by one man. I've always seen that as happening in the garden at the fall. thus, before sin entered, their flesh resembled that of Jesus, the Christ of God, who was also tempted in all points like as we, yet without sin.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-26-2017, 08:46 PM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 37,884
Re: law of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by phareztamar View Post
The law of sin and death not only affected Adam and humanity, but the entire creation. Wild animals became vicious, carnivorous, and territorial…plants began to whither and die…trees were felled by parasites…big fish began eating little fish, etc… The entire food chain was rocked…
I used to believe this but no longer do.

I believe only man was intended not to die. Not creation.

Quote:
none more than Adam, at the top. He had life unending…with no aging, sickness or death…to dress and keep the garden of God. This life unending resided in his blood, for: …the life of the flesh is in the blood. If then, this eternal life in Adam’s blood
Eternal means no beginning nor ending. I do not believe Adam had eternal life. He had unending life, but not eternal life. He would get "eternal" life from the fruit of Life, because that was God's life. It may sound picky, but it's technically true. Only God is eternal, and getting His life is getting eternal life.

Quote:
was poisoned…of his own doing…then of necessity, a change has taken place in his chemistry. Before the arrival of sin and death, Adam’s blood sample would be worth a million Pulitzer’s. What coursed through his veins was pure blood…the original recipe…eternal life. After the forbidden fruit, Adam’s blood…and the blood of all who would issue from his loins…was forever changed. Yes, life still flowed there…but not eternal life. What now flowed through his veins, was some lesser manifestation of life. It included a process of aging, a slow devolution of disease, degradation, corruption…and in the end, death. Gone was the pure, original recipe. It was now infected. The blood flowing in his veins was literally, chemically contaminated, with the law of sin. This is that same law working in Paul’s members some 4,000 years later, and in our members today. The blood where our life resides, is poisoned blood. Free will, the wrong choice, brought 6,000 years of infection never cured. Adam did surely die, that very day. He and Eve are the only humans to have ever tasted that purity. Only they had a reference point, from which to gauge sin, and its debilitating effects. Everyone after them has lived on the consequence side of that breach. Infected life, and death, are normal to us. They are the only base line we know.
As a law, sin shares some basic properties with other creation laws. God’s laws fascinate me. They’re sorta split into higher laws, and lower laws. The lower laws are always in force…24/7. Man is given no power over the lower laws. They are as solid as a rock, and man cannot stop, change, or impede them. Higher laws are just the opposite. They are only in force when man chooses, and man has been given power over the higher laws.
Gravity is the classic lower law. It is in force at all times, 24/7. Man has no power over this lower law. In God’s economy, there’s only one way to overcome a lower law…you must choose to apply a higher law. Today, we fly through the air in steel airplanes, hauling thousands of people an hour, to places throughout the world. Thousands of pounds of flesh and steel, defying gravity. How? By applying the higher law of aerodynamics, we suspend the lower law of gravity. But it never really went away. Just turn off the airplane engines and see. You have that choice.
If an object is lighter than water, it floats. If it is heavier than water, it sinks. Pretty simple lower law. So then, how is it that we sail the seven seas in huge steel warships…much heavier than water? We apply the higher law of displacement, and suspend the lower law of floatation. Is the lower law gone? Punch a big hole in the side of the ship, and start taking on water in the displaced void. Lower law wins. Steel is too heavy to float.
Have you ever gone to the hardware store, and asked the clerk for a “dark switch “? Something you could control the dark with? They don’t sell them. Man has no power over the lower law of darkness. It remains in force at all times, 24/7. But, besides the sun beating it up all day, we can ask the clerk for a light switch. These they do sell, and they’re the coolest thing. Every time I choose to engage the higher law of light, I flip the switch, and darkness hides in the closet, or flees under the bed. It just sorta lurks there, until I choose to remove the higher law, and flip the light switch off.
The point I’m trying to make, is that sin…the law of sin…is a lower law. It resides in each of us, coursing through our veins. This truth cannot be overstated. The law of sin is in force at all times, 24/7. It will live inside you until the day you die. We have absolutely no power over this global disease. Every human being now living, and every human being to have ever lived since Adam, is infected with this law of sin. It couldn’t be helped. It was passed on to you at your conception…chemically and biologically…by the laws of pro-creation. The entire human race became infected at the source. We have no power over this lower law…this global disease. It remains uncured after 6,000 years. All are doomed to live life, with this raging law of sin running riot through their bodies. At the end of that ride, all are appointed to die. This is the pitiable state of the human race. But there is hope. God, being like He is, has given us a higher law to deal with our disease. As long as we choose to apply it, the lower law of sin remains suspended. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Or, to put it another way: This I say then, walk in the spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
I agree essentially with all else you said. Amen.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 07-26-2017 at 09:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:19 PM
phareztamar phareztamar is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 456
Re: law of sin

thank you for your response elder. good point on the technicality.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:45 AM
houston houston is offline
Isaiah 56:4-5


 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 11,307
Re: law of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
Couple questions I have concerning your writing.

1 if Adam had eternal life in him then why would God put a tree of life in the garden?
2 if they were so perfect how could they have sinned? James tells us that every man is drawn away of their own lusts. Satan could only tempt them in what they already wanted.
You keep drifting further and further...
LULZ

If they weren't perfect then God created something imperfect?

Around the circle we go.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:51 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 37,884
Re: law of sin

Phareztamar, you hit on one of the most important truths for those already saved. Ironically it's one of the least talked about!

It is THE most favourite topic of my studies.

Walking after the Spirit resolves the dilemma of failing and succumbing to sin as a Christian. People think they are walking after the Spirit just because they have the Baptism of the Spirit. But in reality once we have the Spirit we need to learn to rely on its power through prayer. I believe that's what it means in Ro 6:13 to present ourselves to God as those alive form the dead, so that the resurrection of life can work and empower us. And when we pray in this kind of faith for this to happen Ro 8:10-11 occurs-- The same Spirit that resurrected Jesus quickens and empowers our mortal bodies so we overcome sinful activity.

That's when verse 12 occurs. We won't live after the flesh.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:57 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 37,884
Re: law of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
You keep drifting further and further...
LULZ

If they weren't perfect then God created something imperfect?

Around the circle we go.
I agree.

Perfection is maturity and completion.

And maturity does not require infallibility.

If man never had a choice to disobey that would not even be completion.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:59 AM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
One Thing-Phil 3:13-14


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 8,223
Re: law of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Phareztamar, you hit on one of the most important truths for those already saved. Ironically it's one of the least talked about!

It is THE most favourite topic of my studies.

Walking after the Spirit resolves the dilemma of failing and succumbing to sin as a Christian. People think they are walking after the Spirit just because they have the Baptism of the Spirit. But in reality once we have the Spirit we need to learn to rely on its power through prayer. I believe that's what it means in Ro 6:13 to present ourselves to God as those alive form the dead, so that the resurrection of life can work and empower us. And when we pray in this kind of faith for this to happen Ro 8:10-11 occurs-- The same Spirit that resurrected Jesus quickens and empowers our mortal bodies so we overcome sinful activity.

That's when verse 12 occurs. We won't live after the flesh.
Like when Jesus began His ministry, he prayed and fasted to overcome the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16).

and then he began his ministry.

Luke 4:14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:


Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[f]

Last edited by Amanah; 07-27-2017 at 10:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:04 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 37,884
Re: law of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Like when Jesus began His ministry, he prayed and fasted to overcome the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16).

and then he began his ministry.

Luke 4:14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:


Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[f]
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by shag

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.