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  #201  
Old 04-28-2021, 05:00 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
I have faith that the same church fathers who learned from the apostles themselves, and who compiled the scriptures we have today, reached a consensus as to the practices that the whole church should participate in.

But strictly speaking, to answer your question, I doubt that Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves, would have prayed to Mary (because she wasn't dead) or prayed to dead saints (because they weren't dead yet). There is some evidence of icons in ancient Judaism, so I can't answer that except to say maybe.
But none of those things are in the written word. IN fact, the bible speaks as though it is futile to pray to saints when it asks this question...

Job 5:1.. Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?



All are equally dependent on God, and are not worthy to receive prayer.
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  #202  
Old 04-29-2021, 07:58 AM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
But none of those things are in the written word. IN fact, the bible speaks as though it is futile to pray to saints when it asks this question...

Job 5:1.. Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?



All are equally dependent on God, and are not worthy to receive prayer.
Two things here: Church Tradition and definition of "prayer". Don't really have time to get into either as I'm sure you are convinced, but so was I
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  #203  
Old 04-29-2021, 02:13 PM
1 God 1 God is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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You. Do you know what unitarianism means, because it's evident that you don't know what catholic means? Now, please answer the question I posed in the post you're responding to.
Unitarians believe and teach Jesus was not God, nor shall he ever be God. Incarnationists teach Jesus was God in the ovaries/womb(flesh). The Apostles taught Jesus was made God after his God raised him from the dead VIA the Col 2:9 effect on his body. At that point, Jesus was made a Divinity filled quickening human spirit(AKA God). Jesus and the Apostles spoke of Jesus' God often, which incarnationists disagree and mentally(subconsciously) reinterpret these passages when they read them.

Last edited by 1 God; 04-29-2021 at 02:20 PM.
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  #204  
Old 04-29-2021, 03:37 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Unitarians believe and teach Jesus was not God, nor shall he ever be God. Incarnationists teach Jesus was God in the ovaries/womb(flesh). The Apostles taught Jesus was made God after his God raised him from the dead VIA the Col 2:9 effect on his body. At that point, Jesus was made a Divinity filled quickening human spirit(AKA God). Jesus and the Apostles spoke of Jesus' God often, which incarnationists disagree and mentally(subconsciously) reinterpret these passages when they read them.
Shane, the Apostles taught no such thing. They plainly saw the fullness of the Godhead alreay residing in him bodily on the mount of tranfiguration.
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  #205  
Old 04-29-2021, 04:56 PM
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
I have faith that the same church fathers who learned from the apostles themselves, and who compiled the scriptures we have today, reached a consensus as to the practices that the whole church should participate in.

But strictly speaking, to answer your question, I doubt that Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves, would have prayed to Mary (because she wasn't dead) or prayed to dead saints (because they weren't dead yet). There is some evidence of icons in ancient Judaism, so I can't answer that except to say maybe.
I was going to ask another question but I see you already stated you don't have time for it.
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  #206  
Old 04-29-2021, 05:25 PM
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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I was going to ask another question but I see you already stated you don't have time for it.


We all know both sides of the discussion, what's the point? Lol
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  #207  
Old 04-29-2021, 10:15 PM
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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We all know both sides of the discussion, what's the point? Lol
I'm not interested in debating EO faith and practice. I was just asking for the reasoning, what your thoughts on the subject were, just for my own understanding.

At least you didn't go Novus Ordo lol.
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  #208  
Old 04-30-2021, 07:58 PM
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Shane, the Apostles taught no such thing. They plainly saw the fullness of the Godhead alreay residing in him bodily on the mount of tranfiguration.
?

They saw resurrection glory (which is one of the reasons why Moses and Elijah were present as well).
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  #209  
Old 04-30-2021, 10:13 PM
mont.preterist mont.preterist is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Actually, that is the Eastern Orthodox creed (of which I am now a member) - the Catholics added the Filioque later on.
My friend, it has been years since we corresponded.

What happened that you would go that direction? The last we spoke you were either in south america or UAE teaching ESL classes. What in the world happened?

PM if you want to.
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  #210  
Old 04-30-2021, 11:12 PM
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name

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Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
Two things here: Church Tradition and definition of "prayer". Don't really have time to get into either as I'm sure you are convinced, but so was I
When people refer to tradition, they think that Jesus words about Spirit guiding us into all truth as well as that we would believe on him through his disciples' words, are referring to Generations after the apostles, as though there's some kind of succession they inherited it. But Jesus was strictly talking about those 12. The foundation-layers were those 12, which is why the apostles' names are on the foundation of the New Jerusalem and there's not more than 12 of them. Paul said that he was faithful to give the full counsel of God. So, doctrines like the Trinity and everything else that, for example, you would believe in, that aren't in the Bible, just aren't from God.

I know you don't want to debate because it's assumed everybody knows both sides. But I'm just thinking you may not have heard that response before.
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Last edited by mfblume; 04-30-2021 at 11:16 PM.
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