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  #211  
Old 02-02-2012, 06:22 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by The Matt View Post
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Myth #3: Any Christian who continues to experience same-sex desires is in sin.
it depends...If he/she looks at another guy/girl and thinks "Wow, he/she is handsome/beautiful, then no, they aren't in sin. If he/she looks at another guy/girl and thinks "I would love to be in his/her bed" then yeah, that's a lust of the flesh.
You bring up a good question. What exactly is "lust"? Is sexual attraction "lust"? Is the pleasant thought of what it would be like to make love to someone "lust? Are engaged couples who can't stop thinking about what they wedding night will be like "lusting"? If a boy meets a girl and finds her to be not only a beautiful woman but sexually desirable, is it "lust"? Is a fantasy "lust"? Is a daydream "lust"?

These are questions I've studied out and I've discovered a number of different answers by various theologians and ministers. One source stated that the smallest sexual thought or impulse towards another who you are not married to is "lust". Another source stated that "lust" is actually something more involved, actually desiring and being willing to take what is not yours to take. Covetousness.

Thoughts?
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  #212  
Old 02-02-2012, 06:42 AM
Orthodoxy Orthodoxy is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Mind if I jump in and ask a related question?

What do you think about the love that a homosexual couple has (or claims to have) for each other? Is it (or can it be) really love, of the same type that a heterosexual couple has (or claims to have )?
Good question, Timmy.

I believe that a homosexual couple can often experience a real bonding, union, and intimacy. There really are people in long-term, monogamous, same-sex relationships.

However, I don't think that means that the church should endorse those relationships. Kathryn Greene-McCreight once said:

Quote:
"It does not follow from the church’s freedom to recognize these goods which may issue from homosexual relationships that the church therefore has the freedom to bless such relationships. The church has neither such freedom nor such authority. To insist on this would be to insist on consequentialist ethics, that the ‘ends justify the means,’ so to speak.”
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  #213  
Old 02-02-2012, 08:49 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by Orthodoxy View Post
Good question, Timmy.

I believe that a homosexual couple can often experience a real bonding, union, and intimacy. There really are people in long-term, monogamous, same-sex relationships.

However, I don't think that means that the church should endorse those relationships. Kathryn Greene-McCreight once said:
Excellent post.
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  #214  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:01 AM
deafdriscoll deafdriscoll is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

question- why do you think gays invoke such long discussions
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  #215  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:08 AM
Orthodoxy Orthodoxy is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by deafdriscoll View Post
question- why do you think gays invoke such long discussions
Ha! Because people freak out and don't know what to do with them!

Which is pretty sad.
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Last edited by Orthodoxy; 02-02-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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  #216  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:09 AM
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by Orthodoxy View Post
Ha! Because people freak out and don't know what to do with them!
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  #217  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:39 AM
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The Matt The Matt is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by deafdriscoll View Post
question- why do you think gays invoke such long discussions
My take: Apostolic Pentecostal Faith: Being gay is wrongbad. People who don't quite agree with that conclusion: but this and this and this HOWEVER my belief lines up biblically. And it starts.
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  #218  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:39 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by Orthodoxy View Post
Ha! Because people freak out and don't know what to do with them!

Which is pretty sad.
Sad but true.
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  #219  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:47 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

I know a few Apostolics who don't preach a "gay friendly" message like it's a major issue... but they lean towards what I think is a liberal theology on it. I talked to one brother one evening at Applebee's earlier last year and he talked about David, Daniel, Ruth, the centurion in the Gospels, and eunuchs. He made some very interesting points and spoke about language usage, customs, and even contemporary sources from the first century. He said that he didn't know if he fully embraced the notions presented in what he had read... however, he stated that their points were worth enough consideration to cause one to pause and really think.

Do any of you think he has a point? Are any of you familiar with the more liberal interpretation and wish to shed light on it's weaknesses?

Last edited by Aquila; 02-02-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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  #220  
Old 02-02-2012, 11:33 AM
Orthodoxy Orthodoxy is offline
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Re: Common Myths about Gay Christians

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I know a few Apostolics who don't preach a "gay friendly" message like it's a major issue... but they lean towards what I think is a liberal theology on it. I talked to one brother one evening at Applebee's earlier last year and he talked about David, Daniel, Ruth, the centurion in the Gospels, and eunuchs. He made some very interesting points and spoke about language usage, customs, and even contemporary sources from the first century. He said that he didn't know if he fully embraced the notions presented in what he had read... however, he stated that their points were worth enough consideration to cause one to pause and really think.

Do any of you think he has a point? Are any of you familiar with the more liberal interpretation and wish to shed light on it's weaknesses?
Aquila,

Since you asked...

I know some people who genuinely believe that the Scriptures allow for long-term, committed same-sex relationships. They have studied all of the relevant Bible passages (Sodom, Leviticus, Romans 1, 1 Cor. 6, etc.), and have come to the conclusion that same-sex behavior is not inherently wrong in a certain context. Many of these people are very conservative theologically when it comes to other biblical issues.

Do I consider them heretics because of their position on the issue of homosexuality? Actually, no. Or at least, not necessarily.

I think there are other more important doctrines that they need to believe. (For example, Jesus is the only way to God, salvation by faith alone, etc.). I consider many of these "more liberal" Christians (in regards to sexual ethics) my brothers and sisters in Christ, even though we may disagree here.

I just got finished reading articles from both sides of the "Great Debate" about homosexuality. Side A was written by Justin Lee who believes the Bible allows "same-sex marriage." And Side B was written by Ron Belgau who believes that same-sex attracted Christians are called to celibacy or hetero marriage.

Honestly, I find myself firmly agreeing with the Side B position, but I can still see that this is a very nuanced debate. I think it's important to always research all sides of an issue. Dialogue is essential. We should not be afraid of truth. It always prevails.

If you're interested, you can read both sides of the debate here: http://gaychristian.net/greatdebate.php
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Last edited by Orthodoxy; 02-02-2012 at 11:43 AM.
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