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  #1  
Old 12-11-2013, 04:19 AM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!!

My BSA pack and troop are allowing their charter to lapse 12/31, and are re-chartering 1/1/14 as a Trail Life USA troop. TL has put together a great program in an amazing space of time! These youth programs I've participated in the past six years are chartered at a local trinitarians non-denominational church that has a lot of large homeschooling families.

I was all excited until I learned that TL will make NO exceptions on their statement of faith. In the past, AHG had allowed we Oneness Pentecostals to offer a substitute SoF. TL is patterned a lot after AHG, and the SoF is IDENTICAL.

So I am to be left behind, out in the cold; I can be a volunteer but not an official leader.

Has anybody else experienced this?


I learned that TL's SoF was designed to exclude Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses, so they are definitely uninterested in bending it for OPs. Bend it for one group, and you've got to bend it for all.

I am curious to hear how other Oneness Boy Scout leaders are handling all this, because the UPC denounced all associations with BSA after the vote in May to allow openly homosexual youth in the program beginning 1/1/14. There are hundreds of troops chartered at OP churches. What are you going to do?
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Engineering solutions for theological problems.

Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by OP_Carl; 12-11-2013 at 04:21 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:39 AM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP_Carl View Post
My BSA pack and troop are allowing their charter to lapse 12/31, and are re-chartering 1/1/14 as a Trail Life USA troop. TL has put together a great program in an amazing space of time! These youth programs I've participated in the past six years are chartered at a local trinitarians non-denominational church that has a lot of large homeschooling families.

I was all excited until I learned that TL will make NO exceptions on their statement of faith. In the past, AHG had allowed we Oneness Pentecostals to offer a substitute SoF. TL is patterned a lot after AHG, and the SoF is IDENTICAL.

So I am to be left behind, out in the cold; I can be a volunteer but not an official leader.

Has anybody else experienced this?


I learned that TL's SoF was designed to exclude Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses, so they are definitely uninterested in bending it for OPs. Bend it for one group, and you've got to bend it for all.

I am curious to hear how other Oneness Boy Scout leaders are handling all this, because the UPC denounced all associations with BSA after the vote in May to allow openly homosexual youth in the program beginning 1/1/14. There are hundreds of troops chartered at OP churches. What are you going to do?
I know that the Assemblies of God has the Royal Rangers program. I am surprised that UPCI does not have some type of the same program.
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:34 AM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

I know of one UPC church in the Austin area who is doing the Royal Ranger program at their church. You might check that program out.
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:36 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP_Carl View Post
My BSA pack and troop are allowing their charter to lapse 12/31, and are re-chartering 1/1/14 as a Trail Life USA troop. TL has put together a great program in an amazing space of time! These youth programs I've participated in the past six years are chartered at a local trinitarians non-denominational church that has a lot of large homeschooling families.

I was all excited until I learned that TL will make NO exceptions on their statement of faith. In the past, AHG had allowed we Oneness Pentecostals to offer a substitute SoF. TL is patterned a lot after AHG, and the SoF is IDENTICAL.

So I am to be left behind, out in the cold; I can be a volunteer but not an official leader.

Has anybody else experienced this?


I learned that TL's SoF was designed to exclude Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses, so they are definitely uninterested in bending it for OPs. Bend it for one group, and you've got to bend it for all.

I am curious to hear how other Oneness Boy Scout leaders are handling all this, because the UPC denounced all associations with BSA after the vote in May to allow openly homosexual youth in the program beginning 1/1/14. There are hundreds of troops chartered at OP churches. What are you going to do?
What EXACTLY do you not agree with, concerning TL's SOF?

Is their language so strict that there isn't any wiggle room at all?


As for the BSA, I don't understand how if a little boy thinks he is gay and decides to speak about it would make a situation so unbearable for a grown Christian man that he must leave the BSA.

Imagine if all the straight Christian men decided to not be with the BSA.

What role models would be available for the wayward boy?


The root of these knee-jerk reactions by self-righteous Christians is rooted in their belief that there is a special place in hell for homosexual offenders.

Homosexuality is sin, but it won't get one to hell any quicker than being a thief, liar, or murderer.

Now the gay Boy Scouts have one less Christian influence in their lives, and we all know that the BSA is overflowing with homosexual boys wanting to play "let's go camping"-- creating a situation where no straight Christian male can possibly maintain his holiness.


Even if the teenage sinner in BSA doesn't repent in front of you, the seeds of life you could be planting may grow later in that sinner's life, but they won't grow if they are never planted.
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 12-11-2013 at 09:39 AM.
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:45 AM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
What EXACTLY do you not agree with, concerning TL's SOF?

Is their language so strict that there isn't any wiggle room at all?


As for the BSA, I don't understand how if a little boy thinks he is gay and decides to speak about it would make a situation so unbearable for a grown Christian man that he must leave the BSA.

Imagine if all the straight Christian men decided to not be with the BSA.

What role models would be available for the wayward boy?


The root of these knee-jerk reactions by self-righteous Christians is rooted in their belief that there is a special place in hell for homosexual offenders.

Homosexuality is sin, but it won't get one to hell any quicker than being a thief, liar, or murderer.

Now the gay Boy Scouts have one less Christian influence in their lives, and we all know that the BSA is overflowing with homosexual boys wanting to play "let's go camping"-- creating a situation where no straight Christian male can possibly maintain his holiness.


Even if the teenage sinner in BSA doesn't repent in front of you, the seeds of life you could be planting may grow later in that sinner's life, but they won't grow if they are never planted.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:21 AM
n david n david is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
As for the BSA, I don't understand how if a little boy thinks he is gay and decides to speak about it would make a situation so unbearable for a grown Christian man that he must leave the BSA.

Imagine if all the straight Christian men decided to not be with the BSA.

What role models would be available for the wayward boy?

The root of these knee-jerk reactions by self-righteous Christians is rooted in their belief that there is a special place in hell for homosexual offenders.

Homosexuality is sin, but it won't get one to hell any quicker than being a thief, liar, or murderer.

Now the gay Boy Scouts have one less Christian influence in their lives, and we all know that the BSA is overflowing with homosexual boys wanting to play "let's go camping"-- creating a situation where no straight Christian male can possibly maintain his holiness.

Even if the teenage sinner in BSA doesn't repent in front of you, the seeds of life you could be planting may grow later in that sinner's life, but they won't grow if they are never planted.
You completely missed the point here. The issue isn't about the kids in BSA, the issue is that churches would have to have to allow scout leaders who are gay. You may think that's okay, many do not, and that's the reason churches are pulling out of the BSA and the reason the UPC did what it did.
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:56 PM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fifth Brick Ranch on the left.
Posts: 1,640
Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
What EXACTLY do you not agree with, concerning TL's SOF?

Is their language so strict that there isn't any wiggle room at all?


As for the BSA, I don't understand how if a little boy thinks he is gay and decides to speak about it would make a situation so unbearable for a grown Christian man that he must leave the BSA.

Imagine if all the straight Christian men decided to not be with the BSA.

What role models would be available for the wayward boy?


The root of these knee-jerk reactions by self-righteous Christians is rooted in their belief that there is a special place in hell for homosexual offenders.

Homosexuality is sin, but it won't get one to hell any quicker than being a thief, liar, or murderer.

Now the gay Boy Scouts have one less Christian influence in their lives, and we all know that the BSA is overflowing with homosexual boys wanting to play "let's go camping"-- creating a situation where no straight Christian male can possibly maintain his holiness.


Even if the teenage sinner in BSA doesn't repent in front of you, the seeds of life you could be planting may grow later in that sinner's life, but they won't grow if they are never planted.
The SoF requires signatories to affirm the trinity.

Thank you for the rant and rhetoric, however that is all water under the bridge and I'm riding an inner tube and have no paddle...

At the end of the day, after considering all our options, our group made our decision on principle. Continued participation in BSA would render tacit approval of their decision to embrace views conflicting with THEIR OWN CREED AND TRAINING MATERIALS, plus conflicting with our take on morality.

Also in our consideration was an estimation of the likelihood for further policy change in the immediate future to allow homosexual adult leaders. We felt that the May decision is constituted in a way that will invite lawsuits, followed by the aforementioned policy change from partial to full acceptance of the homosexual agenda.

My problem is that I'm a oneness man working with a trinitarian group, and they are headed someplace I cannot go.
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.

Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2013, 02:52 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by navygoat1998 View Post
I know that the Assemblies of God has the Royal Rangers program. I am surprised that UPCI does not have some type of the same program.
That was my thoughts. I had a friend that was a part of that. Its sad and dissappointing all these Oneness groups are isolationists and sectarians. They could all form such a group for their young men. Most programs in the UPC seem aimed at women and girls
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2013, 04:08 PM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Re: Trail Life USA excludes Mormons, JWs, & US!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
That was my thoughts. I had a friend that was a part of that. Its sad and dissappointing all these Oneness groups are isolationists and sectarians. They could all form such a group for their young men. Most programs in the UPC seem aimed at women and girls
For the longest time, UPC churches have chartered BSA troops and packs. I believe at present there are over 200 such units. The BSA was formerly found to be satisfactory for oneness people to use as a youth program, considering it wasn't doctrinal, extolled a moral code we could embrace, and could be adequately staffed with spirit-filled leaders to instill a high level of trust and confidence.

Now may be the time for oneness people to join together and form a Pentecostal outdoor youth development program!
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.

Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
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