Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?

[Sabby]

This question has been pounded on in other threads. Do you think anything YOU DO saves you? Were the apostles baptized? Did their baptisms "save" them by grace or were they earnestly desiring to please God in a "washing" of repentance? This question matters, because it applies to US!
We know all the definitions of grace...the fact is that we are too proud to admit that our demands for soteriol baptism fall short of grace. We have been taught its essentiality for years for the wrong reasons. There is not ONE thing we have done or will ever do, INCLUDING being baptized that will merit God's grace.
Can you say, "UNLIMITED FAVOR"?
It's a tough pill for some to swallow...kinda like a camel.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Is grace conferred to repentant folks when they get baptized in Jesus Name?
Is grace conferred through the act of getting buried in Jesus Name?

I'd say affirm more than confer.

The realities of baptism are mystical, intense, symbolized re-enactments of God's Story -- subsequently, where the baptizee is putting themselves into that Story, walking the dirt roads, suffering and coming to resurrection with Jesus. It's a demarcation of discipleship. It's a beautiful proclamation of confession. It's a glorious affirmation of God to his children.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

This question has been pounded on in other threads. Do you think anything YOU DO saves you? Were the apostles baptized? Did their baptisms "save" them by grace or were they earnestly desiring to please God in a "washing" of repentance? This question matters, because it applies to US!
We know all the definitions of grace...the fact is that we are too proud to admit that our demands for soteriol baptism fall short of grace. We have been taught its essentiality for years for the wrong reasons. There is not ONE thing we have done or will ever do, INCLUDING being baptized that will merit God's grace.
Can you say, "UNLIMITED FAVOR"?
It's a tough pill for some to swallow...kinda like a camel.

Sure

For ye are saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

How do we have faith in Jesus?

Repent and be baptized, that we may receive his Spirit.

Its simple.. why complicate it?

[Aquila]

It's my opinion that Grace leads the convicted sinner to repentance through the power of the Holy Ghost. It's God's grace that leads that repentant soul into a life of obedience, empowerment, and blessing.... beginning with water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost... pressing on into deepening levels of Christian spirituality and consecration. It's by grace from start to finish.

But those who turn away, do so despite the Spirit of grace.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's my opinion that Grace leads the convicted sinner to repentance through the power of the Holy Ghost. It's God's grace that leads that repentant soul into a life of obedience, empowerment, and blessing.... beginning with water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost... pressing on into deepening levels of Christian spirituality and consecration. It's by grace from start to finish.

But those who turn away, do so despite the Spirit of grace.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8

God graciously saved us through faith. IOW, without the GOODNESS of God and His benevolence towards mankind, noone could have access to salvation. He made it easy for us. We could have been required to go through all the functions and rituals as did the Jews, but those requirements are GONE.
Any and all requirements for grace are met through the exercize of faith. The exercize of faith concerns the spirit of man and conscious belief in the invisible God of Abraham. On this side of the cross that belief is in the revealed Son of God, Jesus Christ and in His fulfilled purpose and mission on the earth to include the gift of eternal life through belief in Him.

This has been covered in another thread, but if grace begins at baptism, then how do you explain Cornelius' experience where God filled him with the Holy Ghost?
The word "grace" simply means the graciousness of God. Are we using a buzz word or a scriptural definition? Grace has nothing to do with us. Grace is ALL about the love, patience and graciousness an absolutely perfect holy God has shown towards an absolutely imperfect unholy creation.

"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 1:4

It is ALL in him.

That said, IMO, we are baptized in obedience to His word and to identify with His death as God has granted us grace through our faith. This faith was activated prior to baptism, therefore, grace was conferred prior to baptism, at the moment of belief.

Ro..4:1
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Ro..4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
If Abraham was justified by baptism, then he can glory, but not before God.

Ro..4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
We are accounted as righteous SOLELY because GOD is gracious towards us, through our belief in Jesus Christ.

Ro 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
Baptism is a work of debt, iow, a debt of gratitude, but not a "work" of grace, since fallen humanity is incapable of doing any work of graciousness. Only GOD is capable of granting us the right (graciousness) to appropriate salvation, and He does it through faith and faith alone.

IMO, baptism confers no more grace than does any christian act of obedience, but rather reflects the grace of God conferred to us by faith.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8

God graciously saved us through faith. IOW, without the GOODNESS of God and His benevolence towards mankind, noone could have access to salvation. He made it easy for us. We could have been required to go through all the functions and rituals as did the Jews, but those requirements are GONE.
Any and all requirements for grace are met through the exercize of faith. The exercize of faith concerns the spirit of man and conscious belief in the invisible God of Abraham. On this side of the cross that belief is in the revealed Son of God, Jesus Christ and in His fulfilled purpose and mission on the earth to include the gift of eternal life through belief in Him.

This has been covered in another thread, but if grace begins at baptism, then how do you explain Cornelius' experience where God filled him with the Holy Ghost?
The word "grace" simply means the graciousness of God. Are we using a buzz word or a scriptural definition? Grace has nothing to do with us. Grace is ALL about the love, patience and graciousness an absolutely perfect holy God has shown towards an absolutely imperfect unholy creation.

"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 1:4

It is ALL in him.

That said, IMO, we are baptized in obedience to His word and to identify with His death as God has granted us grace through our faith. This faith was activated prior to baptism, therefore, grace was conferred prior to baptism, at the moment of belief.

Ro..4:1
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Ro..4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
If Abraham was justified by baptism, then he can glory, but not before God.

Ro..4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
We are accounted as righteous SOLELY because GOD is gracious towards us, through our belief in Jesus Christ.

Ro 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
Baptism is a work of debt, iow, a debt of gratitude, but not a "work" of grace, since fallen humanity is incapable of doing any work of graciousness. Only GOD is capable of granting us the right (graciousness) to appropriate salvation, and He does it through faith and faith alone.

IMO, baptism confers no more grace than does any christian act of obedience, but rather reflects the grace of God conferred to us by faith.

Paul's opinion of baptism is different. When we are baptized we are put into Christ's death. Much more than obedient faith. Its an action required for us to die out to sin. That is done through his death, which we are put into by baptism.

Grace is conferred even before belief. Grace through faith is how grace becomes saving from our sins we have committed.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Paul's opinion of baptism is different. When we are baptized we are put into Christ's death. Much more than obedient faith. Its an action required for us to die out to sin. That is done through his death, which we are put into by baptism.

Grace is conferred even before belief. Grace through faith is how grace becomes saving from our sins we have committed.

It goes without saying that God's graciousness is conferred before belief/faith. He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. He has always been - from Adam to now - a gracious God.

I guess we need to agree on the difference between "conferring" and "appropriating" AND what your definition of the "grace" of God is.

We both quote Paul to justify our positions. What's your definition of GRACE?

If the grace I assume we are talking about is the grace of GOD, it pertains to His (uh oh!) nature/attribute of being gracious. Further, it has to do with a holy, perfect, gracious GOD that should by all rights destroy us but instead graciously allows us come to Him on the basis of faith.
Nothing you ever did including being baptized is a righteous enough work to appropriate His grace.
Think about it.

So what you are saying is that by your actions, (DOING something/baptism)you have "grace" conferred? IOW God owes it to you because of something YOU did?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5
I will agree that baptism is a work of righteousness!

Note Paul says:
1. He saved us
2. He regenerated us
3. He renewed us

No matter your explanation of those points, it is clear that nothing will appropriate saving grace from the Lord Jesus except faith in Him and faith alone.

"...That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 1:29-31

Regenerative baptists always use their baptism as proof of salvation. Their legalism is no different from the Jews checking out Timothy making sure he qualified to enter the Temple. My point is that baptism is a work of righteousness, but nothing more.
You are not saved by what you do or have done, otherwise you'd be in a position to crow about it.
Grace is pictured best when seen through time on Calvary, with Jesus' broken body and blood given as the sacrifice for every man.
Now, THAT is grace conferred!
Luther I believe called it, "The Great Exchange".

It ain't what you did. It's what HE did that confers grace, through faith.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

It goes without saying that God's graciousness is conferred before belief/faith. He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. He has always been - from Adam to now - a gracious God.

I guess we need to agree on the difference between "conferring" and "appropriating" AND what your definition of the "grace" of God is.

We both quote Paul to justify our positions. What's your definition of GRACE?

If the grace I assume we are talking about is the grace of GOD, it pertains to His (uh oh!) nature/attribute of being gracious. Further, it has to do with a holy, perfect, gracious GOD that should by all rights destroy us but instead graciously allows us come to Him on the basis of faith.
Nothing you ever did including being baptized is a righteous enough work to appropriate His grace.
Think about it.

So what you are saying is that by your actions, (DOING something/baptism)you have "grace" conferred? IOW God owes it to you because of something YOU did?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5
I will agree that baptism is a work of righteousness!

Note Paul says:
1. He saved us
2. He regenerated us
3. He renewed us

No matter your explanation of those points, it is clear that nothing will appropriate saving grace from the Lord Jesus except faith in Him and faith alone.

"...That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 1:29-31

Regenerative baptists always use their baptism as proof of salvation. Their legalism is no different from the Jews checking out Timothy making sure he qualified to enter the Temple. My point is that baptism is a work of righteousness, but nothing more.
You are not saved by what you do or have done, otherwise you'd be in a position to crow about it.
Grace is pictured best when seen through time on Calvary, with Jesus' broken body and blood given as the sacrifice for every man.
Now, THAT is grace conferred!
Luther I believe called it, "The Great Exchange".

It ain't what you did. It's what HE did that confers grace, through faith.

Good stuff SD too bad it does not sink in to some

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

It goes without saying that God's graciousness is conferred before belief/faith. He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. He has always been - from Adam to now - a gracious God.

I guess we need to agree on the difference between "conferring" and "appropriating" AND what your definition of the "grace" of God is.

We both quote Paul to justify our positions. What's your definition of GRACE?

If the grace I assume we are talking about is the grace of GOD, it pertains to His (uh oh!) nature/attribute of being gracious. Further, it has to do with a holy, perfect, gracious GOD that should by all rights destroy us but instead graciously allows us come to Him on the basis of faith.
Nothing you ever did including being baptized is a righteous enough work to appropriate His grace.
Think about it.

So what you are saying is that by your actions, (DOING something/baptism)you have "grace" conferred? IOW God owes it to you because of something YOU did?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5
I will agree that baptism is a work of righteousness!

Note Paul says:
1. He saved us
2. He regenerated us
3. He renewed us

No matter your explanation of those points, it is clear that nothing will appropriate saving grace from the Lord Jesus except faith in Him and faith alone.

"...That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 1:29-31

Regenerative baptists always use their baptism as proof of salvation. Their legalism is no different from the Jews checking out Timothy making sure he qualified to enter the Temple. My point is that baptism is a work of righteousness, but nothing more.
You are not saved by what you do or have done, otherwise you'd be in a position to crow about it.
Grace is pictured best when seen through time on Calvary, with Jesus' broken body and blood given as the sacrifice for every man.
Now, THAT is grace conferred!
Luther I believe called it, "The Great Exchange".

It ain't what you did. It's what HE did that confers grace, through faith.

Honestly I believe you are missing the entire teaching of Paul on baptism. Your belief that baptism is a work causes the aboved view, which is flawed in light of scripture.

Belief is something you DO by the way. Its not just a thought, you have to make the decision to believe in Jesus.

I don't see how me getting wet, puts me into Christ. It is the work of God that does that but Jesus does it THROUGH baptism. I can't change it, verses that say we are saved by grace through faith does not override that baptism places you into Christ's death. You should study what Martin Luther believed about baptism. Unless there are contradicting studies of his views, he beleived baptism was necessary and grace was conferred in that rite.

I don't see how anyone can crow about, Hey I got baptized and now I'm born again. Its nothing they do that did that, God did it through that rite..

The phrase by the washing of regeneration indicates what takes place in baptism.

Acts 22:16 continues this with what Ananias told Paul

He did not say wash away your sins by calling on the name of the Lord and then be baptized. It was included with his charge to him to be baptized.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Good stuff SD too bad it does not sink in to some

I am glad it doesn't sink in, its not true doctrine in light of scripture. Faith is not something we have without DOING anything. If that was the case, man I would have been a believer before I actually made the choice to believe (which is something I HAD to DO)