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  #61  
Old 10-19-2017, 10:13 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I don't understand where people get the idea Romans 2:14-15 is talking about anyone BUT regenerated Gentiles in the church of God???
Actually, I tend to agree with you. That is actually the context in Romans 2. Yet, those who had little or no "light" of the gospel will still be judged because their own conscience warned them something was wrong and they ignored it.
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  #62  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:08 AM
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TK Burk TK Burk is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Brother Michael, you don't accept the LIGHT DOCTRINE, because you DON'T believe that anyone is saved outside of what YOU deem to be salvational TRUTH.

Light doctrine simply teaches (as it is explained by early 20th century American Pentecostals) was that you are saved in all the doctrine that you knew at the time.

When Jesus was accused of casting out demons through the power of Beelzebub, He replied that Satan cannot cast out Satan. Because if Satan did that Satan would be fighting against himself. Therefore Jesus teaches that the kingdom of darkness is in lock step with itself. The children of darkness are wiser in their own generation than the children of light. The unjust steward made sure that he wasn't going to do any heavy lifting. But that with another man's money he would buy himself friends. Through the manipulation of his master's resources he gained favor, those he was giving breaks on their debts would in turn be obligated to him, instead of the master. The unjust steward was cooking the books. Jesus isn't commending the unjust steward and contradicting His own message. But Jesus is showing how the children of darkness use what belongs to the Master for only their own advantage. To win individuals over to their side, for THEIR benefit alone. We are to be wise as serpents, but harmless as doves. Not winning people over to be indebted to us and our cause, but to be indebted to Jesus Christ and His cause. We are always to be the good steward. Who when the Master sits down to table we still take care of His needs before our own.

Jesus through the idea of the Kingdom of darkness being unified and not fighting against each other makes a plain fact. You cannot win unless you are unified and solidified. Brother Michael, you are on Paltalk, AFF, and other social medias. You are there working on "Christians" not people who never heard of Jesus Christ, or your Hebrew rendition of YAH or Yashua, Yeshua, or whatever Hebrew guess word you may use. Please, I mean no offense to you. I'm sorry for our run ins in the past. Yet, I must state that everyone to some degree are strongly against any sort of "LiGHT DOCTRINE"

Preterism? Bro, you believe Pre Tribulation rapture and a teaching that the saints will not go through "great" tribulation is heresy. For you to make that statement you would then have to say that those who believe in Pre Tribulation rapture are lost as potatoes, along with any form of eschatology which YOU deem as false.

All I can do is go with the scripture, and fall upon it. Yet, making sure I bounce what I believe off of other men who are in my life to make sure I haven't run in vain. If brothers tell me I will burn, or be annihilated because of what I believe. They are only doing their job, as they see in the SCRIPTURE. Therefore they need to TEACH, by ANSWERING QUESTIONS. Not asking the person who they believe is WRONG and going to bust hell wide open the questions. Because if they don't have the ANSWERS, then who needs a life guard who can't swim. Two Witness Prophets? The Man Child Ministry? What are they? Who are they? The book of Revelation is clear in Revelation 22:18-19 that Jesus' testimony is that anyone adding to His words, or subtracting from His words are deader than fried chicken.

Two Witness Prophets? The Man Child Ministry? Are YOU right? Is the UPCI pastor who is in the biggest Apostolic Pentecostal church in your state right about the same subject? Can two wrongs make a right? Like Votivesoul posted "Never let an appeal to emotion interfere with an appeal to truth."

I want to make heaven my home, I want my family to go as well, but if all of you don't have your heads on straight? Then, sweet love of God, how on earth are you going to reach me? An individual who goes by the name of Coolio use these words in a song he rapped;

"Everybody's running, but half of them ain't lookin'
It's going on in the kitchen, but I don't know what's cookin'
They say I gotta learn, but nobody's here to teach me
If they can't understand it, how can they reach me?
I guess they can't, I guess they won't
I guess they front; that's why I know my life is out of luck, fool!"


No doubt, if you don't even understand it, how will you get me on YOUR path? If you can't explain it to me, how can I see YOUR light. Nope, you just say I'm lost. That's all fine and well, because that is where you stand.

You don't believe in Light Doctrine Brother Michael.

You don't.

In every generation which comes and goes is a small remnant.

Anyone who says they are that remnant will get the snot beat out of them on the daily.

Therefore no one wants to actually be part of that tiny groups. Tiny groups are demonized, and criticized in our culture. Most of the time it is for very good reasons. But you will agree that the largest Christian group on the planet isn't what you deem to be correct, and heaven bound. What about those people who are flipping beads, lighting candles, kissing icons. Are they saved in their light? Our tendency to emotion wants them to be as saved as the apostles. Yet, you and I know different.

No, Light Doctrine?

No body believes there is a light doctrine when they get hard pressed to answer the right questions.
Amen!
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The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere.
 -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03

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  #63  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:18 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Remember the old commercial of buying the world a coke and keeping it company? Well, the church became a parody of that, by broadening what the Bible was trying to do. Instead of the exclusive teachings of Christ and His apostles. It became the inclusive teachings of kinder gentler big idea, a new world order. Where everyone is happy, where no one is judged, motes are gently rubbed deeply into the eyes. Everyone is so kind, and as long as you believe in Jesus everything will be overlooked. Come as you are, and by all means stay just as you are. Sin is a given, and remember we are still human, and we will always sin, because after all, we can't help ourselves. Doctrine? No, doctrine divides. You want to believe Jesus wasn't God but had a god, and at some later point shared His body with His god. No problem, be welcome, and feel totally free to be yourself. We are all in a NO judgement zone.
I see all your points, but my original point is that the UPCI is freaking out over something that really isn't a problem in our movement. Whose teaching this light doctrine?
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  #64  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:21 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
That is incorrect. The NT writings were recognized as authentic Scripture by the original church before trinitarianism was settled as "orthodoxy" at Nicaea.
The canonization of scripture, as in the Holy Bible, was not settled until after Nicaea.
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  #65  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:38 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

If Acts 2:38 means EXACTLY what Apostolics says it means, then Apostolics are the only people who are saved and will inherit eternal life.

But there's even more ways to make the eye of the needle even tighter-- ENSURING all of the mansions Christ is preparing for us will be occupied by "us four and no more" for all of eternity!

Is in the "Name of Jesus" alright?

Some say in the "Name of Jesus Christ"-- this must be the more excellent way...

Some say in the, "Name of the Lord Jesus Christ"-- could this be the MOST excellent way?

Acts 2:38 doesn't literally use the Name or word, "Lord". Uh-oh...

We need to make sure we get it right-- it's not God's fault if you go to hell because you were baptized in the, "Name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Your baptizer should not have added to the Bible!

Next time, tell him to do it right!
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 10-19-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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  #66  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:46 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

I believe in the administration of water baptism to be carried out by literally saying, "Name of Jesus Christ" over the person being baptized-- that's how I was baptized and I wouldn't baptize anyone any other way, if I ever baptize anyone.

Still, if Acts 2:38 establishes a "formula" or pattern to follow, how come the Bible doesn't follow that pattern verbatim?

God knows how to be specific and in fact HE IS very specific when He deems it His Will to be very specific.

The dimensions for the Ark, the Tabernacle, and Solomon's Temple. Even with Jesus Christ giving instructions to someone He healed, "Go wash in the Pool of Siloam."

There is not one clear, verbatim, pattern for the administration of water baptism in the New Testament.

Look for it. You won't find it.

The Apostle Paul corrected the church he established in Corinth over their desire to separate into "camps" of people who were baptized using Apollos' method, Peter's method, the methods of other faithful men.

Why is that teaching there in the New Testament?

What does his teaching in this section of verses tell us about dividing ourselves up over baptismal formulas?
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 10-19-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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  #67  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:56 AM
houston houston is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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The Apostle Paul corrected the church he established in Corinth over their desire to separate into "camps" of people who were baptized using Apollos' method, Peter's method, the methods of other faithful men.
Umm, no.
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  #68  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:58 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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Umm, no.
Ok.

I made the claim. You dispute the claim.

On what grounds do you dispute the claim?

Break out your Bible.
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  #69  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:00 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Ok.

I made the claim. You dispute the claim.

On what grounds do you dispute the claim?

Break out your Bible.
On what grounds? On the grounds that that is not what the text says. You read your own meaning into it. It is self explanatory.
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  #70  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:03 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

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On what grounds? On the grounds that that is not what the text says. You read your own meaning into it. It is self explanatory.
Will you please prove me wrong?

I am very confident that you can't-- but I am willing to hear you.
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 10-19-2017 at 12:08 PM.
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