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  #51  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:24 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: When God speaks

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Very interesting. But I'm currently having trouble identifying battalogia as including the concept of stuttering or repetition, and not simply a synonym for polylogia or "voluminous speaking". I know the usual Protestant commentaries insist on the meaning as having to do with repetitiveness, but I'm not seeing any classical Greek examples of such usage.
Bro, it's polylogia which means to talk too much. It's like someone getting behind a podium with a long drawn out soliloquy. Actually it would be like talking God to death. As for battalogia it has nothing to do with what Jesus was trying to say about prayer.
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  #52  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:26 PM
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Re: When God speaks

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I learned this during a prayer meeting I had about 25 years ago, it was just me and an old legally blind brother in a small country church. Now THAT brother knew how to pray! It was when I experienced a whole new level of prayer. Old time altar pounding sanctuary shaking prayer. I learned a lot just by the experience.
That's what I like.
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  #53  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:26 PM
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Re: When God speaks

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
You said it doesn’t benefit him. I’m sorry to disappoint you, yet when we talk to him it does benefit him.
The CONTEXT of my statement had to do with meeting a NEED, particularly for INFORMATION. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

Quote:
Also, go to your wife and just keep saying her name over and over again. Then ask her if your talking with her, my guess is she would tell you no. Saying phrases in repetition isn’t praying nor is it taking to God. If that’s what you think prayer is, then that’s sad.
Revelation 4:8 KJV
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him ; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

God has no problem with a repetition of adoration and praise.

Quote:
The best examples we have in prayer in my opinion is Daniel.
We have direct instruction from the Lord Himself, as well as 150 Psalms which are not just songs but prayers. But let's look at Daniel's prayers:

Daniel 6:10 KJV
Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

He had a daily habit of praying three times a day, kneeling, every day.

Daniel 9:3-19 KJV
And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: [4] And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; [5] We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: [6] Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. [7] O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. [8] O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. [9] To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; [10] Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. [11] Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. [12] And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. [13] As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. [14] Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. [15] And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. [16] O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. [17] Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. [18] O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. [19] O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

How many repetitions are in this prayer of his? He repeats praise to God in numerous ways. He repeats confession of sin in various forms. He repeats a petition for Divine mercy in a variety of ways. "O lord, hear. O Lord, forgive. O Lord, hearken and defer not." And several such things.

Those are the only examples of Daniel praying that I found. There is a reference to a three week prayer and fasting binge in ch 10, but not too many details. In any event, there is nothing to indicate one should pray to God the way a man talks to his wife, nor is there any indication God is displeased with any and all kind of repetition in prayer.

Quote:
A believer doesn’t need big words, doesn’t need to understand all the definitions of the Bible, he needs simple faith to talk to a God that he doesn’t see through a carnal eye.
Nobody suggested otherwise, except perhaps those who disdain the simple believer who may not know what to say except "Thank you Jesus!" as a simple expression of their love and adoration and faith.

Quote:
Talk to him as a husband talks to his wife. It benefits both parties, the best time the Lord has is when we talk to him.
Sorry but you ain't His husband. Since NOBODY (in the Bible, that is) told anyone to talk to God like He's your wife, but instead they all tell us to talk to Him like He's our FATHER and KING and LORD and GOD and SAVIOUR, I think I'll go with the "God is my Father" approach instead of the "God is my wife" approach.
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  #54  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:27 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: When God speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The CONTEXT of my statement had to do with meeting a NEED, particularly for INFORMATION. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.



Revelation 4:8 KJV
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him ; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

God has no problem with a repetition of adoration and praise.



We have direct instruction from the Lord Himself, as well as 150 Psalms which are not just songs but prayers. But let's look at Daniel's prayers:

Daniel 6:10 KJV
Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

He had a daily habit of praying three times a day, kneeling, every day.

Daniel 9:3-19 KJV
And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: [4] And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; [5] We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: [6] Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. [7] O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. [8] O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. [9] To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; [10] Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. [11] Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. [12] And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. [13] As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. [14] Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. [15] And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. [16] O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. [17] Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. [18] O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. [19] O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

How many repetitions are in this prayer of his? He repeats praise to God in numerous ways. He repeats confession of sin in various forms. He repeats a petition for Divine mercy in a variety of ways. "O lord, hear. O Lord, forgive. O Lord, hearken and defer not." And several such things.

Those are the only examples of Daniel praying that I found. There is a reference to a three week prayer and fasting binge in ch 10, but not too many details. In any event, there is nothing to indicate one should pray to God the way a man talks to his wife, nor is there any indication God is displeased with any and all kind of repetition in prayer.



Nobody suggested otherwise, except perhaps those who disdain the simple believer who may not know what to say except "Thank you Jesus!" as a simple expression of their love and adoration and faith.



Sorry but you ain't His husband. Since NOBODY (in the Bible, that is) told anyone to talk to God like He's your wife, but instead they all tell us to talk to Him like He's our FATHER and KING and LORD and GOD and SAVIOUR, I think I'll go with the "God is my Father" approach instead of the "God is my wife" approach.
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  #55  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:30 PM
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Re: When God speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Bro, it's polylogia which means to talk too much. It's like someone getting behind a podium with a long drawn out soliloquy. Actually it would be like talking God to death. As for battalogia it has nothing to do with what Jesus was trying to say about prayer.
"A long drawn out soliloquy". Yes! Exactly. You said in 4 words what took me several paragraphs to say.
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  #56  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:37 PM
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Re: When God speaks

I just can't imagine dissing someone who loves God and prays however they know how to pray even if it seems simple and a bit "hillbilly" or "dumb" to us. I mean, I have heard some folks praying that would test the patience of Job but good grief! Mocking someone for how they pray? When they are sincere and NOT being hypocritical and pretentious? Not trying to give some impressive grand oration? Just simple people praying simple prayers from a simple heart? What's there to mock?

How did Pentecostal people become the very kind of people that used to kick us out of church for being too "unsophisticated" for their tastes?

Wonders never cease.
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  #57  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:40 PM
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Re: When God speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The CONTEXT of my statement had to do with meeting a NEED, particularly for INFORMATION. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

Revelation 4:8 KJV
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him ; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

God has no problem with a repetition of adoration and praise.

We have direct instruction from the Lord Himself, as well as 150 Psalms which are not just songs but prayers. But let's look at Daniel's prayers:

Daniel 6:10 KJV
Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

He had a daily habit of praying three times a day, kneeling, every day.

Daniel 9:3-19 KJV
And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: [4] And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; [5] We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: [6] Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. [7] O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. [8] O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. [9] To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; [10] Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. [11] Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. [12] And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. [13] As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. [14] Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. [15] And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. [16] O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. [17] Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. [18] O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. [19] O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

How many repetitions are in this prayer of his? He repeats praise to God in numerous ways. He repeats confession of sin in various forms. He repeats a petition for Divine mercy in a variety of ways. "O lord, hear. O Lord, forgive. O Lord, hearken and defer not." And several such things.

Those are the only examples of Daniel praying that I found. There is a reference to a three week prayer and fasting binge in ch 10, but not too many details. In any event, there is nothing to indicate one should pray to God the way a man talks to his wife, nor is there any indication God is displeased with any and all kind of repetition in prayer.

Nobody suggested otherwise, except perhaps those who disdain the simple believer who may not know what to say except "Thank you Jesus!" as a simple expression of their love and adoration and faith.

Sorry but you ain't His husband. Since NOBODY (in the Bible, that is) told anyone to talk to God like He's your wife, but instead they all tell us to talk to Him like He's our FATHER and KING and LORD and GOD and SAVIOUR, I think I'll go with the "God is my Father" approach instead of the "God is my wife" approach.
Thank you brother for this.
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  #58  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:44 PM
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Re: When God speaks

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Thank you brother for this.
You're welcome.
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  #59  
Old 08-05-2021, 09:18 PM
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Re: When God speaks

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
"A long drawn out soliloquy". Yes! Exactly. You said in 4 words what took me several paragraphs to say.
I'm usually the wordy one.

You usually nail it with just a few sentences.
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  #60  
Old 08-05-2021, 09:33 PM
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Re: When God speaks

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Imagine that. "Pentecostal people" (and "preachers"!) mocking how some folks talk to the Lord. It's a real good feeling to know you're not like those simple bumpkins, eh?

How people pray is between them and God. None of my business really. All I know is that for me, when I tried to follow some of the examples that were around me in prayer it felt like and turned into some kind of disassociative unconscious repetition where I felt completely disengaged from what I was doing kinda like when you're in a conversation with someone that you're just contributing filler words with.


Im sorry if my expression of that has been insulting to you in any way.


I grew up learning how to pray by shutting myself in a room where I could speak to the Lord...I assumed thats what we were supposed to do right? Doesnt have anything to do with bumpkin this simple that...it has a lot to do with being very easily distracted and when the loudest guy in the rooms prayer basically consists of one or two words on repeat...its really hard for me to pray...not because Im holier than thou...just really difficult for me not to fall into the same pattern of repetition...feels like my mind goes into neutral and Im just copying someone else.





Maybe you've spirituality matured to the point you dont have that issue...great...good for you. Pray for me then.
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