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  #11  
Old 09-06-2021, 09:26 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Can a spirit of depression disguise itself....

Romans 9:1-3 KJV
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, [2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. [3] For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Paul was so "depressed" about the fate of his unbelieving kinsmen (spirit of racism?) that he could almost wish he was cut off from Christ for them. He missed their community and fellowship THAT MUCH.

But no mention of him being under any "spirit".

Hmm....

From this we learn the following:

1. It is quite normal and perfectly ok for a person - even an apostolic, or even an APOSTLE - to be sad about certain situations. Even sad to the point of entertaining the possibility of outrageous attempts to rectify the situation. Sadness is a normal part of life in this world, for Christians and everybody else.

2. It is entirely possible for a Christian, through the grace of Christ and the power of God, to overcome such sadness - NOT by becoming "unsad", but by making their decisions and choices in conformity to the known revealed will of God IN SPITE of how they "feel" at the moment.

3. The apostles and early Christians of 2,000 years ago weren't anywhere near as superstitious as many professing Christians today appear to be, nor were they at all uncomfortable with admitting and addressing the ugly realities of life WITHOUT recourse to empty pietisms or primitive pagan superstitions. In other words, not everything is the result of some invisible bugbear trying to get you.
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2021, 09:52 PM
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Re: Can a spirit of depression disguise itself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
Look, Im all for heavy intercession...but lets say that you entertain something that for our discussion we will call travail. Supposed to be a deep moving of the Spirit right? But what happens when the person gets up from that continually but seems to all of a sudden be lacking in the Fruit of the Spirit? It worries me that someone can have such a negative shift after spending so much time in a deep spiritual activity. If said person has greatly struggled with depression and the like in the past...and they have been told that this activity is from God and they should give themselves over to it.. it'd be the perfect set up for an attack of the enemy.


Look folks.....Ive done my share of burying my face in the carpet groaning making snot bubbles ok?


Im not dismissing this out of hand.


Im just noticing something that seems off.


Why the sudden change in mood and attitude?


Where'd the fruit go?


All valid questions Im asking.


So I felt this little hint in direction drop in my spirit yesterday that these were the questions I need to be asking...so Im asking.


Just like everyone that speaks in tongues isnt always being motivated by the Spirit of God...csn there be a dark perversion of intercession that is actually fooling us into allowing depression to manifest?


Keep in mind that the person in question had never experienced this before but was told by another lady that its what it was...so she just kinda took that as gospel and threw herself into it.


Ive watched as people that hated my guts hit an altar, get filled with the HolyGhost and get up and the first thing they did when they saw me standing there is bear hug me weeping apologizing...this almost feels like we fight more after prayer.


Just being real here yall...just concerned.


Just feels like we are under attack.
2 Timothy 2:20-21 KJV
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. [21] If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2021, 06:29 PM
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Nicodemus1968 Nicodemus1968 is offline
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Re: Can a spirit of depression disguise itself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
What is the difference between a spirit travail in prayer and entertaining a spirit of weeping depression?
Lets understand something, there is no scripture that calls travail, a “spirit” of travail. Yet, is reralted to a women that is being delivered of a child in her womb. I have been in the room as my wife went into travail, and friend through experience hearing others in travail the sound is the same. There is a reason why Paul realtes to what he is going through with the church in Galatia as travail. There is a similarity that is between giving birth and praying for a soul at that level of depthness.

Galatians 4:19
[19] My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,


Isaiah 66:8
[8].... for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.


The first example is Paul stating I travailed for you, and he will do it again until Christ be formed in you. Someone should answer the question, why did Paul have to traval for them, couldnt they do it on their own??? No they couldnt! A child cannot be delivered by itself, it needs a Mother to carry her for those months while it develops, and the day will come when the mother will birth that child into this world. It’s the same as the spiritual mother giving birth new new born babes in Christ.

Also, going to back to the “spirit” of travail, just remember its Pauls spirit in travail, so it is indeed a spirit of travail.

Its the spirit of the church that wrestles in prayer over souls that are bound in possession and opression that need their spiritual bonds broke. That’s what intercession and travail is all about.

I personally know men as they were praying at the alter it seemed as if they hit a spiritual wall, and they couldnt move forward in their prayer. Yet, on the other side of the church there is a saint almost tied in knots praying with groanings that cannot be understood. And in the matter of minutes you can see the burden lift, and at the same time that soul broke through and is speaking in other tongues.

Another example,
There was a missionary that had a child on its death bed. Day by day the child grew worse and with little nursing experience she did have, she knew her child was dying. Out of desperation she asked the Lord to lay her on some prayer warriors heart. Within minutes the childs chest relax, and the baby was healed. Months passed and she received letters from different parts of the world that all stated the same thing. What was wrong with you and the baby, we were complelled to pray at this day and hour!!!

Praise God, I love this. Travail, intercession is real today, and God will use you if you desire, if not then youll never understand the spirit that it brings.

I used those two examples to show you the difference between travail and depression.

When travail or intercession calls you to that chamber, that burden will eventually lift. Youll feel a liberty in your spirit, Ive heard men say they interceeded for a couple hours and their insides hurt for days.

These stories Ill mention and what Im saying will go over somes head, its not meant for them, yet for those that want to see greater things in the spirit, search this out, ask God to draw you into this realm.

There was a man preaching at a church in the upper midwest, and one night he was awakedned to go to the church and pray, it was around 12-2 in the morning, as he was praying the front door opened and footsteps are heard walking throughout the church, they stop at the evangelist as he was kneeling in prayer, fear could be felt, intimidation was thick, yet that preacher kept on praying, and that spirit walked out the way he walked in. This only comes by prayer and fasting, it doesnt come by talent, yet by availability.

Now, like I stated travail will eventually lift from your spirit. Depression will continue to opress you, into submission. It will lead to medications, anxiety, fear, suicidal thoughts and so on.

Isaiah 61:3 KJVS
[3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord , that he might be glorified.


Depression will leave you spirit feeling heavy, there is no lifting, there is no accomplishment that your prayer has been heard from God. Yet, its a weight, that you cant shake.
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Last edited by Nicodemus1968; 09-07-2021 at 06:34 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2021, 09:50 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Can a spirit of depression disguise itself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
While there isn't a Biblical reference one can turn to, to find the phrase "spirit of depression" or "spirit of travail" (good call out, Diakonos!), I think we all have been around Pentecost long enough to know what our brother is asking.

Many people, often women, but men as well, speak of travailing when they pray, or travailing in intercession, and etc. The lingo is quite common, if Biblically non-existent.

A reference that is often used is found in Galatians 4:19,



It is believed that Paul, distressed by the goings-on among the churches he founded in Galatia, hit his knees in prayer and prayed deep, travailing tears of intercession for the saints who had fallen prey to the Judaizers and their ἕτερον εὐαγγέλιον (heteron euangelion - different/other gospel; Galatians 1:6).

And so, when they pray, and begin to cry and groan and experience sorrow and pain and speak in unknown tongues, they come to believe that they, too, like Paul, are travailing, and are therefore, as they saying goes, "birthing things in the Spirit".

In Galatians 4:19, the Greek word for travail is ὠδίνω, or odino, and it means to travail in birth pangs, or feel a need to deliver something by undergoing a "birthing-type" process.

https://biblehub.com/greek/5605.htm

The same Greek word is used only in Galatians 4:19, then again in Galatians 4:27, and Revelation 12:2. It comes from the Greek word ὠδίν, or odin, which refers to the birth pang itself, or to any other severe pain or intense suffering one might feel.

https://biblehub.com/greek/5604.htm

The word is used famously by the Lord Jesus in His Olivet Discourse regarding the "beginning of birth pangs" (See Matthew 24:8 and Mark 13:8).

There are only two other places in the NT where the word is used:

1.) Acts 2:24, which refers to the "pains of death" from which the Father loosed Messiah upon raising Him from the dead.

And,

2.) 1 Thessalonians 5:3, in which Paul describes the plight of those who say "peace and safety", only to find themselves in sudden destruction, like a woman experiencing the sudden onslaught of labor pains.

With this in mind, one clearly sees both the literal and figurative meaning behind the idea.

The question is, whenever someone prays and begins to cry and groan and experience sorrow and pain and speak in unknown tongues, just what is happening?

Are they, like, Paul, travailing until Christ be formed in someone else?

Well, to begin to answer, I find a different, more pressing question needs to be asked first, namely:

Just what did Paul mean in Galatians 4:19?

- Does Paul in Galatians 4:19 anywhere mention being in prayer?
- Does Paul in Galatians 4:19 anywhere mention interceding in the Spirit?
- Does Paul in Galatians 4:19 anywhere mention anything even remotely close to what modern Pentecostals describe when they allege to be in a so-called spirit of travail?

Note the context:

Galatians 4:11-21,



Just what was Paul's labor pain? He was mad. He was upset that after all his hard evangelistic work in Galatia to found the churches there, including being stoned outside of Lystra (Acts 14:19 and 2 Timothy 3:11), that the very people who once would have plucked out their eyes for him, were now abandoning the Apostolic message of grace and truth found, not in the law of circumcision, but in the atoning death of Jesus of Nazareth.

He wanted to go and visit them, and soften his tone, and have a change of heart, but his doubts about them were, at the time of his writing to them, insurmountable.

So, just what was Paul suffering? In his doubts, his anger, his frustration, he had come to believe that all the hard work, including the persecutions he suffered at the first, would have to be endured all over again, if he was to win the Galatians anew, to Christ.

As far as Paul was concerned, the Galatians were lost, fallen from grace, as he put it. They were in need of re-evangelization. This troubled Paul greatly, causing him great consternation.

We can therefore surmise that part of what Paul was suffering and needing to be delivered from, was his own emotional state. That, unless and until the Galatians repented and renewed their faith in Christ and came again to believe in the Gospel that Paul had preached to them, he would have to consider them anathema, and that caused him untold sorrow.

So, that's what Paul meant when he wrote of travailing. He wasn't talking about intercessory prayer, or birthing things in the Spirit, or any of these other ridiculous Pentecostalisms with which we all are familiar.

This being the case, what then is happening with Brother or Sister _________ when they begin to cry and groan and experience sorrow and pain and speak with unknown tongues when they pray?

How about this:

Romans 8:22-27,



Are these people travailing? Yes. But for what?

No one knows, not even the one who is doing it:

1 Corinthians 14:2,



But the Spirit knows. The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly (Proverbs 20:27).

It is just as likely, and perhaps, Scripturally speaking, even more likely, that when a person finds themselves praying in the way Jediwill is asking about, that the person travailing is the person who needs deliverance. They have an infirmity. As part of creation, they, too, suffer the corruption that the rest of creation experiences, and they, too, who are the firstfruits of the Spirit, are waiting for the adoption, that is to say, the redemption of their bodies, and so, groan and travail along with everyone else, until that time comes.

Just as it is the travailing pregnant woman who needs to be delivered from the baby inside of her, so, too, does the travailing saint need to be delivered from the infirmity that exists inside of them.

And yes, to finally answer the original question, that travail-causing infirmity might be depression, or other mental health disorders, from which, Brother or Sister ________ needs deliverance.
To "travail" as a metaphor taken from the contractions and discomfort of birthing a child would simply mean to undergo hardship and discomfort that is a necessary accompaniment to a particular outcome. It could mean praying with extreme intensity, it could mean (as in Galatians) going through the hard work of re-evangelizing along with the emotional stress such work necessarily entails, it could refer to a sudden onset of distress and "bad things happening" as when the wicked are caught unprepared for divine judgments.

Intense emotion in prayer, however, is neither new nor unique:

Psalm 22:1 KJV
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Psalm 38:8 KJV
I am feeble and sore broken: I have roared by reason of the disquietness of my heart.
Psalm 69:1-3 KJV
Save me, O God; for the waters are come in unto my soul. [2] I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the floods overflow me. [3] I am weary of my crying: my throat is dried: mine eyes fail while I wait for my God.

Psalm 6:6 KJV
I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.

Psalm 42:1-3 KJV
As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. [2] My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God? [3] My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?

I think perhaps a lot of folks are just too used to dead mumbled "prayers", so that real heartfelt "fervent" prayer is seen as startling, out of the ordinary, "super special", when really it ought to be the norm.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2021, 09:50 PM
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Re: Can a spirit of depression disguise itself....

This will heal a spirit of depression...guaranteed.....

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