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  #11  
Old 06-26-2021, 08:24 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Davidís stature?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1 Samuel 16:11-19 KJV
And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither. [12] And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he. [13] Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. [14] But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. [15] And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. [17] And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me. [18] Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Beth-lehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him. [19] Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep.

David wasn't a little puny kid when he was anointed by Samuel and entered Saul's court.

1 Samuel 16:21 KJV
And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer.

He was immediately appointed as the king's armourbearer. This is not some little kid, no matter what Veggie Tales says.

According to Numbers 1:3, 20 years old was the minimum age for military service. David was identified as a "man of war" prior to killing Goliath, and afterwards was immediately placed in charge of a battalion (1000 soldiers). If he was under 20 it is highly likely somebody (especially Samuel the prophet of God and champion of "obedience is better than sacrifice") would have objected that he was not yet eligible for military service.

It is thus most likely that he was 20-21 years old when he killed Goliath. Such persons were often called "youths" (as was Absalom even though he was definitely older than 20). Goliath calling him a "boy" would just be an example of a giant warrior insulting a young challenger.
Where do you get that this took place before he killed Goliath? It seems to have some gaps in it. It seems that if David were already Saulís armor bearer, he would have not needed any introduction to David. I donít know. It doesnít seem clear to me.

And if he were twenty years old he wouldnít have been in the army already?
I dunno.

We do know that David actually became king at thirty.
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2021, 08:34 PM
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Re: Davidís stature?

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Where do you get that this took place before he killed Goliath? It seems to have some gaps in it. It seems that if David were already Saul’s armor bearer, he would have not needed any introduction to David. I don’t know. It doesn’t seem clear to me.

And if he were twenty years old he wouldn’t have been in the army already?
I dunno.

We do know that David actually became king at thirty.
1 Samuel 16:13-19 KJV
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. [14] But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. [15] And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. [17] And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me. [18] Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Beth-lehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him. [19] Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep.

This was shortly after David was anointed by Samuel. Goliath shows up in chapter 17, the next chapter. I see no evidence ch 16 took place AFTER chapter 17.

As for David being in the army, he likely already was, since he was described by one of Saul's servants as a "man of war". The fact he shuttled between serving as a couriet for the army and tending his father's flocks is no impediment to this. Israel's military was generally a citizen militia. Somebody had to manage the homestead. David had three brothers in the army already, so it is not unreasonable that David would at that time be serving part time.

In ch 17 we read:

1 Samuel 17:15 KJV
But David went and returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep at Beth-lehem.

This was right before Goliath showed up. So ch 16 happened before 17.
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Last edited by Esaias; 06-26-2021 at 08:37 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2021, 08:45 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Davidís stature?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1 Samuel 16:13-19 KJV
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. [14] But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. [15] And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. [17] And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me. [18] Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Beth-lehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him. [19] Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep.

This was shortly after David was anointed by Samuel. Goliath shows up in chapter 17, the next chapter. I see no evidence ch 16 took place AFTER chapter 17.

As for David being in the army, he likely already was, since he was described by one of Saul's servants as a "man of war". The fact he shuttled between serving as a couriet for the army and tending his father's flocks is no impediment to this. Israel's military was generally a citizen militia. Somebody had to manage the homestead. David had three brothers in the army already, so it is not unreasonable that David would at that time be serving part time.

In ch 17 we read:

1 Samuel 17:15 KJV
But David went and returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep at Beth-lehem.

This was right before Goliath showed up. So ch 16 happened before 17.
You may be exactly right Esaias. But remember that David pointed out on his ďresumeĒ that he killed a lion and a bear. He didnít mention being a man of war. He became Sauls son in law after gathering two hundred foreskins of the Philistines. But this seems to be after he killed Goliath.
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  #14  
Old 06-26-2021, 08:59 PM
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Re: Davidís stature?

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
You may be exactly right Esaias. But remember that David pointed out on his ďresumeĒ that he killed a lion and a bear. He didnít mention being a man of war. He became Sauls son in law after gathering two hundred foreskins of the Philistines. But this seems to be after he killed Goliath.
How many soldiers were known for killing lions and bears when not fully armed? Goliath was a monster of a warrior. All the men of war were afraid of him. So David's resume wouldn't bother with being a man of war, but being supernaturally ferocious and tough enough to take on wild dangerous animals single handed with shepherding tools.

Note: When Saul's servant called David a man of war, it need not mean David had a reputation for killing men in battle. It just meant he was A) at least part time in the military and B) known for courage and not afraid. This reputation could theoretically be gained (in the servant's eyes at least) without David actually getting his CIB as it were.

In any event, I think the 20 year age benchmark for military service is enough to establish he was most likely 20 or 21, or thereabouts.

But even if he was under 20, he wasn't some little middle schooler. He would have been very close to 20. Although I think the preponderance of evidence points to him being at least 20.
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  #15  
Old 06-26-2021, 09:14 PM
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Re: Davidís stature?

As for David's actual stature, Saul was a tall guy, and David could wear his armour. So it seems David wasn't a short guy.
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  #16  
Old 06-27-2021, 07:55 AM
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Re: Davidís stature?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
1 Samuel 16:11-19 KJV
And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither. [12] And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he. [13] Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. [14] But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. [15] And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. [17] And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me. [18] Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Beth-lehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him. [19] Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep.

David wasn't a little puny kid when he was anointed by Samuel and entered Saul's court.

1 Samuel 16:21 KJV
And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer.

He was immediately appointed as the king's armourbearer. This is not some little kid, no matter what Veggie Tales says.

According to Numbers 1:3, 20 years old was the minimum age for military service. David was identified as a "man of war" prior to killing Goliath.
Agreed! And, yet, he will still be represented as a puny young boy.

David loved his king. What a good person he was.
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  #17  
Old 06-27-2021, 08:01 AM
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Re: Davidís stature?

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
It seems that if David were already Saulís armor bearer, he would have not needed any introduction to David. I donít know. It doesnít seem clear to me.
I always thought that was the strangest thing. Saul must have been some kind of narcissist.
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Old 06-27-2021, 09:31 AM
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Re: Davidís stature?

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I always thought that was the strangest thing. Saul must have been some kind of narcissist.
Saul had "problems", remember? An evil spirit messing with his mind....
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2021, 01:08 PM
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Re: Davidís stature?

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Saul had "problems", remember? An evil spirit messing with his mind....
Saul was fully capable of functioning as a king. It appears he was troubled at times, but not 24/7.

I Samuel 16:16 ďLet our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.Ē
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  #20  
Old 06-27-2021, 01:34 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: Davidís stature?

You know just speaking generally about David. I get that he was a man after God’s own heart. But otherwise he seemed to live a life that wasn’t enviable at all. Running from Saul, fighting with his own sons, being banished to live with the enemy Philistines. And especially dealing with a generally dysfunctional family.

It just doesn’t seem to be the life that a king should covet. When I look at David’s life I think mine looks pretty good in fact.
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