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  #11  
Old 07-22-2021, 10:29 AM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by Bowas View Post
What should our reaction be...?
The leadership of the church should go over to him and politely but firmly tell the man to leave and not to come back until he dresses and acts like a man. Then have him escorted out, peaceably and non-violently.

If the scene erupts, as it might, handle it accordingly.
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  #12  
Old 07-22-2021, 10:44 AM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The leadership of the church should go over to him and politely but firmly tell the man to leave and not to come back until he dresses and acts like a man. Then have him escorted out, peaceably and non-violently.

If the scene erupts, as it might, handle it accordingly.
I'm in house churches we don't have people just popping in. Visitors come through invites of the church family. I had a crossdresser sit down at a public Bible study years ago.
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Old 07-22-2021, 12:17 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The leadership of the church should go over to him and politely but firmly tell the man to leave and not to come back until he dresses and acts like a man. Then have him escorted out, peaceably and non-violently.

If the scene erupts, as it might, handle it accordingly.
I have never heard of this approach, except when dealing with people disrupting the service. Where do you draw the line of permissible to attend your gathering? Just curious, not trying to be contentious.
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Old 07-22-2021, 12:22 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
I'm in house churches we don't have people just popping in. Visitors come through invites of the church family. I had a crossdresser sit down at a public Bible study years ago.
Same with us. We meet in living rooms, not open to random public.
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  #15  
Old 07-22-2021, 12:48 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
I have never heard of this approach, except when dealing with people disrupting the service. Where do you draw the line of permissible to attend your gathering? Just curious, not trying to be contentious.
The first thing to note is, the Scriptures never describe a meeting of the church as randomly open to the unbelieving, un-professing public.

Paul treated the issue with the Corinthians by mentioning how someone unlearned in the charismata may come in and witness their improper use and label the adherents in the assembly insane.

But that by no means indicates that having such people come regularly into Apostolic church meetings was the expected or desired norm.

The church meets for the church. The fellowship of believers and the communal meal, particularly if the bread and wine are served, is for believers only. It is otherwise restricted and exclusive.

To want, expect, desire, or allow just anyone from anywhere to be a part of that is not Bible.

Paul wrote and affirmed that such people are worthy of death, that the very wrath of God Himself is revealed against such folks (among many other folks, as well; Romans 1).

How then do we sit back, accept it, and let the person in question worship God with us, dance and sing, and gets handsy with the ladies of the church, confuse the children, and possibly permit the invitation of whatever polluting, unclean spirit into the meeting.

We want to be seeker-sensitive, and understanding, and non-judgmental, and un-offensive, and all that, and think compassionately and hope we can win him, and worry that if we do anything less, we will raise up a hell-storm against us, and be labeled intolerant, bigoted, homophobic, and all that. Maybe even have people show up to protest us, maybe get persecuted for it, etc.

Remember "you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake"?

When's the last time you incurred anyone's hatred for the Lord's name sake, by taking a stand for righteousness?

How do I determine where the line is?

Simple: Book, chapter, verse.

The Torah makes it quite clear: the LORD God detests/abhors/holds as an abomination, the idea of transgenderism.

Paul wrote that we can partake of other men's sins. John warned against blessing someone who comes into your house (of worship?) and holds not the doctrine of Christ.

Active cross-dressing and transgenderism is antithetical to the doctrine of Christ. The doctrine of Christ begins with repentance from dead works.

If there is fruit meet for repentance, and the Spirit is really drawing that man that he might be saved, he should acquiesce as a condition.

But remember the original post! The scenario given indicates no repentance and desire to be delivered. The person in question in the scenario comes into the meeting, cross-dressed, and participates in the meeting acting as though a practicing, that is, saved Christian.

No such thing can exist.

As such, no welcome mat needs must be rolled out.

I mean, did Paul tolerate and accept the damsel possessed by the pythonian spirit? Did he welcome her into the church and allow her to preach and prophesy and worship the Lord with them? How about Elymas?

Did Jesus chill out on the Pharisees? Give the Scribes or the Sadducees a pass? How about the moneychangers?

Give the Gospel straight, free of charge, and let the Spirit do the work. If that man desires to be saved, and has a tender, repentant heart, he will submit to the requirements set before him, and come back.

Otherwise, you are simply asking for trouble, either way.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16 (ESV),

Quote:
14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols?
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Old 07-22-2021, 12:49 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

Very good insights and ideas from all. I contacted the pastor, and he got a bit testy with me for suggesting he wasn't doing anything. I told him I did claim he wasn't doing anything about it, but was wanting to know what is being done about it. I told him our priority one is to the members, and we need a resolution as to the best and even the legal rights we have. I told him it is unacceptable that we have this man, and this man identifies himself as "Sis." and he is running around hugging our women, and is totally unacceptable.

Come to find out, another minister in our church contact the pastor and he too expressed deep concern for the well being of the members, and that people are beginning to wonder what is being done.

I understand here in Calif we may have more restrictions that other places legally, but this is no doubt what we must be prepared for in the future.
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Old 07-22-2021, 01:04 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
I'm in house churches we don't have people just popping in. Visitors come through invites of the church family. I had a crossdresser sit down at a public Bible study years ago.
I know I already quoted and addressed this one, but I want to revisit and highlight what our good brother wrote.

Invites come from church family. You have to trust your church family immensely, to know they will invite people over into your home.

But to just have an open door, anyone can walk in and bless the Lord with you?

No one knows the person, can vouch for the person, speak to their intent and interest in the things of God or what it means to be saved?

The open air, public Bible study is completely different. That is evangelism in front of the world. And well done. That is the Scriptural way. It's how Jesus did it, the Apostles did it, Philip the Evangelist did it.

Now, let us say I know a cross-dresser or transgendered person, and he or she, as the case may be, and I begin discussing the Scriptures, or I have an opportunity to be a witness and declare the Gospel, I will, no restrictions, no hard feelings.

But not at a church meeting. The church meets for the edification of the saints. It is a sacred time. It ought not to be interfered with, disrupted.

Now, sometimes it can't be helped, and the ministry is then equipped to deal with it. But suffering such a disruption without doing anything about it?

That's just allowing Christ's wife to be mistreated, if you ask me.
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Old 07-22-2021, 01:09 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by Bowas View Post
Very good insights and ideas from all. I contacted the pastor, and he got a bit testy with me for suggesting he wasn't doing anything. I told him I did claim he wasn't doing anything about it, but was wanting to know what is being done about it. I told him our priority one is to the members, and we need a resolution as to the best and even the legal rights we have. I told him it is unacceptable that we have this man, and this man identifies himself as "Sis." and he is running around hugging our women, and is totally unacceptable.

Come to find out, another minister in our church contact the pastor and he too expressed deep concern for the well being of the members, and that people are beginning to wonder what is being done.

I understand here in Calif we may have more restrictions that other places legally, but this is no doubt what we must be prepared for in the future.
So, it is a real situation. The man is referring to himself as sister. That is odd. I find that most “Christians” don’t often refer to one another as brother or sister outside of apostolic and Pentecostal circles.

Does he have an apostolic or Pentecostal background?
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:00 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Anyone who struggles with this abomination needs to understand that it is a spirit of perversion they are dealing with. But it is a spirit.
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:03 PM
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Re: Cross dressers in church

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
It is complicated. Unless is obvious, or the person reveals the truth to me, I would follow along with the way they introduce themselves to me.

I have heard so many heart breaking stories. I have seen people sometimes that I can't tell by the appearance what in the world they are. I may offend them not for saying the truth but because their appearance is so confusing that I may insist in call them "her" when they are truly a "his" and they already told me so.

So, I would say, don't ask (unless the person is opening up to you), and go along with the way the present themselves as, but if you are told or knew the person before, or it is way too obvious, because of conscience, you then use the pronoun of what they really are.

I have heard of stories of trans that converted back saying that their parents calling them by the right pronoun was always a call back to the truth even if they didn't like it. It worked for good, and helped with their later repentance. However, you are not their parents, but that being said, they came to a church and they know what they are expecting.

You may need to talk to some people or read some books about these peoples. A lot of them were messed up by their parents themselves, rewarding their imitation of the opposite sex, and then encouraging the medical intervention.

Just a word of warning: some of those people may be false converts, looking for an opportunity to sue the church.

Just my thoughts.
Do you know anyone that came from a lifestyle of Trans/Homosexuality that is now saved Acts 2:38?
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