History of Tithes in the Church

[Amanah]

Also, once temple sacrifices were established, cattle could be converted to coinage for people traveling to the temple. Then converted back for sacrificial requirements.

[Amanah]

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/ar...coins-in-egypt

Archeologists have discovered ancient Egyptian coins bearing the name and image of the biblical Joseph, Cairo's Al Ahram newspaper recently reported. Excerpts provided by MEMRI show that the coins were discovered among a multitude of unsorted artifacts stored at the Museum of Egypt. According to the report, the significance of the find is that archeologists have found scientific evidence countering the claim held by some historians that coins were not used for trade in ancient Egypt, and that this was done through barter instead. The period in which Joseph was regarded to have lived in Egypt matches the minting of the coins in the cache, researchers said. "A thorough examination revealed that the coins bore the year in which they were minted and their value, or effigies of the pharaohs [who ruled] at the time of their minting. Some of the coins are from the time when Joseph lived in Egypt, and bear his name and portrait," said the report. The discovery of the cache prompted research team head Dr. Sa'id Muhammad Thabet to seek Koranic verses that speak of coins used in ancient Egypt. "Studies by Dr. Thabet's team have revealed that what most archeologists took for a kind of charm, and others took for an ornament or adornment, is actually a coin. Several [facts led them to this conclusion]: first, [the fact that] many such coins have been found at various [archeological sites], and also [the fact that] they are round or oval in shape, and have two faces: one with an inscription, called the inscribed face, and one with an image, called the engraved face - just like the coins we use today," the report added.

[good samaritan]

Joseph was sold for twenty pieces of silver doesn’t mean it had to be coinage. I am not saying wasn’t, but it appears to me that the money was determined by weight.

Genesis 43:21
And it came to pass, when we came to the inn, that we opened our sacks, and, behold, every man's money was in the mouth of his sack, our money in full weight: and we have brought it again in our hand.

Also as far as Egyptian coins bearing Joseph’s name seem unlikely since his name was a Hebrew.

Genesis 41:45
And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt.

Joseph was given another name, much like Daniel and the three Hebrew boys. Again, not saying that the coinage found isn’t true, but I would want to read more about it first.

[good samaritan]

https://www.baptistpress.com/resourc...-joseph-coins/

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

How did they even obtain money if it wasn’t from the land? Why did Abraham want all that cattle? Did Abraham need large herds soley to feed his family or was it because it was a source of commerce. Agriculture always has been and always will be a vital source of commerce. Before the industrial revolution throughout the world it always has probably been the most primary sources of commerce. Unfortunately the monetary system we are in right now often causes people to miss the need of agricultural products. People think because they have money that there will always be food at the grocery store.

I think the point Bro. Blume makes, stands up. Most of Israel’s society was made up of agricultural resources. Sure there where craftsmen, among them, but by far the most essential resource used for commerce was food. They didn’t have supermarkets and monetary system in place as we have today. Obviously, the transactions made for agricultural products where made through the barter of goods, services or precious metals (often called money). Printed money and minted coinage likely may not existed during the period the law of Moses was given.

You guys need to learn some logic. You do not know that bartering in Biblical times was greater in volume than exchange of silver and gold by weight as the currency system.
If frequency in the bible is an indicative (which I think it is but with a grain of salt) exchange in commerce happened a lot more often in silver and gold than in bartering

Therefore, if your premise are inconclusive, you should not use it to draw conclusions that the reason why tithing was on produce was because of the form of commerce. Blume's stance does not stand!

In fact, your conclusion contradicts other forms of law in the Law of Moses that explicitly asks for gold and silver or money, and not produce.

Here is the logic: your conclusion is based on inconclusive premises and it is not even the most plausible explanation, and your conclusion when tested back against ALL the evidences fails.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

.
I think you don’t get it. This isn’t about some doctrinal formula that you have to give to be saved. It is about giving so the church can be more of an impact in this world. I am not certain, but I am wondering if you are against church orthodoxy all together. Maybe you think we should only worship from house to house?

We may not have a mandate to give tithes of our incomes, but we are commanded to be fruitful. If we choose to separate our Christian walk from our finances then we are gonna be in trouble. God must be Lord over all in our lives and we may not agree on what is necessary for ministry in todays world. Therefore, you may not find it necessary to support local church ministries. If we don’t use are resources to reach our cities with this gospel message, I do think we will be lost. That is not about tithing, but about faithfulness to God’s commission.

I think you don't get it either. We are not against giving. And you keep trying to play it down.

You are teaching a false doctrine that has negative consequences against the congregation, even if you teach it with a softer stance on it.

You as a UPCI minister should be, by bylaws, forbidding non-tithers to vote as members of the congregation, and should forbid non-tithers from being preachers or teachers, and even other things like choir singers.

However, you have said, you don't enforce any of that, and you teach a softer stance on tithing. That's awesome. Still, if you teach tithing as a recommendation, you are setting a bar, and creating a moral issue within your congregation. False Doctrines have negative consequences in the congregations of the Lord.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Joseph was sold for twenty pieces of silver doesn’t mean it had to be coinage. I am not saying wasn’t, but it appears to me that the money was determined by weight.

Genesis 43:21
And it came to pass, when we came to the inn, that we opened our sacks, and, behold, every man's money was in the mouth of his sack, our money in full weight: and we have brought it again in our hand.

Also as far as Egyptian coins bearing Joseph’s name seem unlikely since his name was a Hebrew.

Genesis 41:45
And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt.

Joseph was given another name, much like Daniel and the three Hebrew boys. Again, not saying that the coinage found isn’t true, but I would want to read more about it first.

Obviously! Currency was of gold and silver by the weight! Whether was stamped or not it doesn't matter to the point!

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You guys need to learn some logic. You do not know that bartering in Biblical times was greater in volume than exchange of silver and gold by weight as the currency system.
If frequency in the bible is an indicative (which I think it is but with a grain of salt) exchange in commerce happened a lot more often in silver and gold than in bartering

The point is there was no monetary system like our federal reserve. They had to trade goods for another tangible resource even if it was gold or silver. Gold and silver is a precious metal therefore the use of it was more Alike bartering than a monetary system. BTW, I have logic. You may not agree with my logic, but that doesn’t mean I don’t possess it.

Therefore, if your premise are inconclusive, you should not use it to draw conclusions that the reason why tithing was on produce was because of the form of commerce. Blume's stance does not stand!

It is very conclusive.

Do we not use money today?

Do we barter today?

Do you think they had a monetary system that consisted of car payments, electric bills, or do you think that their primary interest was in what was grown or raised on their lands. Most people today don’t even know anything about farming when the Bible bears out that they where a nation that was supported by agriculture regardless of their monetary system.

In fact, your conclusion contradicts other forms of law in the Law of Moses that explicitly asks for gold and silver or money, and not produce.

Never intended to align with the law to begin with.

Here is the logic: your conclusion is based on inconclusive premises and it is not even the most plausible explanation, and your conclusion when tested back against ALL the evidences fails.

That is your opinion. I can give something conclusive, our monetary system is not identical to theirs. They where not a part of the U.S. government and never heard of a U.S. dollar.

[good samaritan]

[QUOTE=coksiw;1610554]I think you don't get it either. We are not against giving. And you keep trying to play it down.

You are teaching a false doctrine that has negative consequences against the congregation, even if you teach it with a softer stance on it.

Not just a softer stance. There are no consequences at all taught for not tithing at our church. Everyone has the liberty to decide what they give, but it is understood that there has been an emphasis placed on a tenth throughout scripture for a reason. I do not teach that there is a curse only there is a lot of instances of tithing in scripture and not all done under mosaic law for it to be insignificant.

You as a UPCI minister should be, by bylaws, forbidding non-tithers to vote as members of the congregation, and should forbid non-tithers from being preachers or teachers, and even other things like choir singers.

FYI, every church is to have their own bylaws. As I have already stated, I have always tithed and so I do not fail from compliance of tithing.

However, you have said, you don't enforce any of that, and you teach a softer stance on tithing. That's awesome. Still, if you teach tithing as a recommendation, you are setting a bar, and creating a moral issue within your congregation. False Doctrines have negative consequences in the congregations of the Lord.

There is liberty we have to establish practices as long as we have biblical principles to support. I can’t (black and white) tell someone it is a sin to drink alcohol, but I still will teach against the use of alcohol. I am a Prohibitionist when it comes to drugs and alcohol. The Holy Ghost would not allow me to go buy a beer and drink it, similarly I would be convicted to spend the tithe of my income.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Obviously! Currency was of gold and silver by the weight! Whether was stamped or not it doesn't matter to the point!

The point was that the center of commerce for the people of Israel was agriculture. Any gold or silver they received, was probably obtained by an agricultural means. The cheif resource was then agriculture, today it isn’t. Most people have jobs working bringing home a check. Most people have not spent one day on a farm. How could chickens, eggs, or produce pay for any of the expenses of operating a church facility today.